Ominous: how faith-based attacks in Paris take root in small town America

After yesterday’s tragedy in France, we awake today to a story which demonstrates how we got to that point, and why we are losing the ideological and cultural battle against Islamo-fascism.

As reported by the Washington Times, “The City of King, North Carolina, has settled a four-year battle in agreeing to remove a veteran’s memorial that featured a praying Soldier and a Christian flag.”

“After spending $50,000 in legal fees, the city voted 3-2 Tuesday to approve a settlement agreement in the lawsuit, Steven Hewett v. the City of King, the Winston-Salem Journal reported. The city agreed not to fly the Christian flag, to end its flag lottery policy, and to remove the statue depicting a soldier kneeling before a cross-shaped marker, the paper said.”

“The decision to settle this case has been very difficult for the King city council,” the city said in a press release, The Daily Caller reported. “It was not reached until it became clear that the costs of proceeding to trial would greatly exceed the city’s insurance policy limits.”

As a bit of background, this lawsuit by Americans for Separation of Church and State was on behalf of one citizen in the city of King, North Carolina – not exactly a majority of the citizenry. In fact, it was a former U.S. Army veteran suing the city in a lawsuit that was estimated to run up a cost of $2 million.

I just have to ask, what is so offensive to one person about the image of a lone Soldier kneeling in prayer? That memorial represented the guardian kneeling for strength, who stands upon the ramparts of freedom to ensure the God given unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are protected. Several of those liberties were assaulted in Paris yesterday — perhaps that has no meaning to this singular citizen.

But what is most disturbing is that the city council capitulated simply because it could not afford the legal fees brought against it.

That’s exactly what the secular humanist movement understands — attack these small cities, such as in Madison County in Georgia where a faith-based monument at a high school football stadium was attacked — and force surrender.

The Times states, “though the room of roughly 60 people observing the vote never got out of hand, many attendees shook their heads in frustration, with one shouting out, “What else are you going to give up next?” Mayor Pro Tempore Dillard Burnette, who voted in favor of settling, thanked the veterans there, but said, “There’s no win in this situation,” the Winston-Salem Journal reported.”

Basically they were drawn into surrender because of the financial backing of the group bringing the lawsuit.

Ladies and gents, I present to you an assertion that this is part and parcel of what happened in Paris — same result, different means. A part of our Judeo-Christian faith heritage was engaged, and in the end it was censored. It appears at times the secular humanists and the Islamo-fascists have the same end goals: the eradication of our faith heritage and values in Western civilization, and the submission to their will.

And sadly, over these past two mornings I have awakened to see them winning.


  1. I wonder..what’s to stop a municipality from selling just enough property for a sign to an individual and that individual using it for the same purpose?

    • A lot of municipalities have laws that require sales of municipal property to be approved by an election in order to prevent fraud and the like. It could be done but it’s probably a lot harder than it sounds.

  2. Hopefully a church close to town will take the statue and display it in their yard. I can only pray that it is in the part of town with the heaviest traffic.

    • That is a good option. As far a Nativity Scenes are concerned, I think every church should be responsible for one of its own before arguing about a public one.

    • An excellent suggestion! Because that is exactly where expressions of faith belong. On private property such as a church or private residence, where religious expression is just about unlimited (barring and restrictions the city or county might have such as size, or volume level if music is involved, etc..)

  3. I live in this town and there is so much more to this story like a vigil that lasted over 30 days to protect the flag at the park and the insueing March wich included over 5,000.00 people in support of the cross and flag. This is a Christian town

    • I am very sad for all those in your town that fought so hard to keep the cross and flag and then had to give them up because of one person. This is so selfish of that person, God forgive them.

      • It actually started over this individual was mad becouse the city wouldn’t let him operate a karate buisness out of his basement so the lawsuit is pure vengeance. This organization has come into our town and almost bankrupted us then left to rape another town. This is not over

      • That’s a bunch of Bull Darrell, but you’ve not quite know for telling the complete truth, are you?

      • You are a sad individual Pat. Your happiness is to see the sadness in other people. I hope you eventually find another way of being happy someday.

      • That’s right, telling a lie in the name of jesus is acceptable. Did you wonder why Darrell’s not posting this pack of lies on the local sites . . because too many local people know it’s not true.

      • I am not on that video. Many of us knew Mr Burdick was being deceitful when he made this film knowing he was a friend of Mr Hewitt. As this conversation has turned somewhat ugly this is my last post. God Bless you Mrs Jenson and I hope you find peace.

      • Darrell – I hope you enjoy your little get-together tomorrow, you all can gather and mourn the end of your ill-fated and unconstitutional quest. And thank you, I have found peace, it came about the same time that I read that the King City Council voted against your little terrorist group’s flag. And the only reason you are leaving here, is you know that other folks from King are going to start posting and gosh, you are going to end up with a lot of egg on your face. Pax et amor.

      • We are looking forward to tomorrow. I feel it will be a beautiful day. A day for renewing faith for the city is no longer involved. It is now the people’s responsibility to fix the liberal laws in this country. A day we begin not end. God bless

      • I was part of that march and we all rallied around our veterans and sat vigil in the park for a longtime! I had heard about his vengence for losing his”illegal” karate school in his basement. Yes, this fight isn’t over! Darrell, do you know has anyone contacted the ACLJ? They take these kinds of cases without charge!

      • ACLJ and others did represent king but fought aginst a librral judge. The same one that tried to ban prayer before council meetings in winston. They do represent for free but if they lose then the plan tiff lawers bills has to be paid by the city’s insurance. It’s a extortion racket by the ACLU and their ilk. They come in and file a suit then charge up to 4 times the rates of normal lawers to scare towns into settleing. They then take their money and move on to the next town

      • Uh, no. The ACLU is not extorting anyone and you have no evidence to level that accusation. The reason you have no evidence is that attorney fees must be reasonable and can be challenged by the loser with the court.
        The ACLU only files a lawsuit after at least three to four attempts to appraise the offending venue of the violation then follow ups to confirm whether or not the offending party is doing anything about changing the policy to come into compliance. After a number of attempts, if it is apparent that the venue will not make any corrections, then a lawsuit is filed.
        And the amount of attorney’s fees depends on how far the defense wants to take the lawsuit. The may wish to appeal to a circuit appellate court and losing there, even up to the SCOTUS. You be talking big bucks by then.
        To add perspective, consider how much law firms challenging red state same-sex marriage bans must be making. Red state same-sex marriage bans are falling like dominos all over the country and most states have deep pockets. Red states are losing but appealing all the way up to the supreme court. Some red states are racking up millions of taxpayer dollars to defend these pointless bans.
        And the law firms representing same-sex couples challenging their home state bans will be raking in those million.
        It’s not the ACLU’s fault that religious hegemony takes precedent over a state’s financial balance sheet.

      • That’s BS citizens united billed 4 times the amount as their counterpart. The fees don’t have to be reasonable just justified.

      • I assure you it’s not BS.
        Justified instead reasonable? Meh, pretty much samo-samo, I can agree with that.
        However concerning your extortion claim, unfortunately, the evidence you cite is weak and absurdly non sequitur. And citing only one case that has nothing to do with your ACLU extortion claims, is hardly convincing.
        Citizens United challenged established law, and just because, as you claim, counsel for CU “billed four time the amount” the defense did is kind of hard to believe as the defendant was the Federal Election Commission. The FEC either has their own in-house counsel or the Justice Dept. supplies counsel. Federal employee lawyers in any case, and I don’t believe the costs of individual federal court cases involving federal agencies are publicly available without a FOIA request. So how would you know it was actually four times what the FEC spent defending the law? Not that I don’t believe you, just skeptical because your evidence is irrelevant to your claim.
        Cases like King City’s are “Establishment Clause” violations and the organizations filing the legal actions are suing only to force the responsible party(s) to comply with the law (that would be the Constitution), that’s it. Forcing compliance with the law through legal action is not persecution of Christianity.
        The process goes like this: Initially, when the violation comes to the attention of either the ACLU, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, the Freedom From Religion Foundation, or the American Humanist Association, they investigate, and if true, an advisory warning letter is first sent to the owners of the violation. The letter lists what the violation(s) are, what the evidence is proving the violations are fact, and ending with the consequences of an inevitable loss in court should a last resort lawsuit be filed (Yes, the advisory letters always fairly warn about being responsible for attorneys fees when they lose, should they choose to litigate. If it was just about money they wouldn’t include the lawyer’s fee warning in the advisory notifications at all). If ignored, another is sent, if still no action of correction is found and the violation remains, then another letter is sent. If still no corrective action is performed, a lawsuit is eventually filed.
        So much for your extortion claim.

      • We did have one of the organizationsweetest representing king and while they don’t charge for their services the judge ordered king pay for Hewitt exorbitant lawers fees and that was 5000.00. Kings insurance paid that bill but wouldn’t allow them to go any further

      • Yes the ACLJ will take your case pro bono. But only if they think there’s even the slightest chance they’ll prevail. You see, the ACLJ’s agenda is to chip away at the 1st Amendment’s Establishment Clause. They’re forever cajoling Pastors to risk their church’s IRS tax exempt status by politicking from the pulpit. Offering to take the case for free. However, the ACLJ is always reluctant to tell their clients that when they lose, they’ll be on the hook for the plaintiff’s attorney fees. Fortunately, King city settled and it only cost their insurance carrier fifty K.
        Btw, the insurance carrier told the city council that they would lose this lawsuit and if they pursued it their policy would be cancelled. So much for the confidence of the righteous.

      • You mendacious clown. You’re really claiming Hewitt went through all this simply for revenge? Do you know what he’s going through now with the harassment, all those threats of violence and death? Which, of course, is the typical Christian reaction to situations like this.
        Rape? Really? That’s your description? Fifty K isn’t all that much and when the insurance carrierpicks up the tab it’s downright nothing, isn’t it?
        “Rape another town.” What weapons-grade BS.

      • That’s the truth but I’m sure he has given a more glorious reason. Steven is the most protected person in stokes co even though he is constantly poking at people and being a ass to everyone. He walks around looking for his next lawsuit. The fact nobody has ever laid a hand on him shows your point is not valid. As to everyone disliking steve. You reap what you sow

      • I could care less what he is going through. His arrogance is his enemy. He caused us plenty of grief so if he suffers due to his actions ,so be it

      • Aw, I’m so sorry that your need to see Christian hegemony anywhere you see fit has been dashed, despite the fact that Christians are in the majority, as if that makes any difference. It doesn’t.
        Oh Yeah, most definitely you’ve suffered so much.
        Cry me a fecking river, clownboy.

      • Sorry, but they lost the flag and statue not because of one person, one courageous man who is now suffering the typical responses of Christians in this type of situation: Publishing of his home and work addresses, his and his family members phone numbers and of course the prerequisite threats of violence and death.
        The city lost the Christian flag and Statue containing a Christian cross at the Vet’s Memorial because they were illegal. Nothing more.

      • What is illegal about a statue of a soldier kneeling in prayer? And why would ONE person want to take something like that away from residents who obviously were attached to it. It’s just selfishness and the “because I can” attitude that is ruining our society.

      • Y’know it’s best to not jump to conclusions and miss the best ones.
        To answer your question…nothing. Nothing is illegal about a statue of a soldier kneeling in prayer. However, a soldier kneeling in front of a Christian cross in prayer is illegal if it is the only religion represented. It is the display of a single, expressly religious symbol that is prohibited by law. And since Christianity is the only religion on display on government/public land, it is tantamount to government favoring one religion, Christianity, over other religions or no religion.
        Had the city offered the opportunity to allow other religions or no religion to provide their own flags or statues, nothing would’ve been done as the Vet’s Memorial would then be in compliance with the law.
        Do you understand? It is not at all about one person “wanting to take something like that away from residents”. It is about complying with the law.
        It should be noted that a better solution to this sort of issue would be to ban all religiously themed displays from public grounds. It would solve all the problems with this issue.

      • Oh, I totally get the part about the Cross, but what I don’t understand is the happiness that some get from being “right”. Most of us have turned our eyes away from a situation that was not right, and just let things be. In the case of Christian beliefs there always seems to be someone ready to trample on them as much as possible. I am sure we are not going to see eye to eye on this particular story; I respect your views as it pertains to the law. I just feel badly that we can’t all get along. This world needs more unity and peace.

      • Wha? I’m not sure I understand. You don’t think people should be happy when they’re right? Or are you confusing happiness with smug satisfaction?
        Oh puh-leeze, of course there’s always somebody ready to trample on Christian beliefs. I’m one of them. I’m of the mind that if your so insecure in your faith and beliefs that ecumenical adversity doesn’t roll off you like water off a duck’s back, then maybe your should listen to what I have to say about your Christian beliefs.

  4. We had a similar situation in our small town concerning our nativity scene which is set up by a local church on our court house lawn. The answer was to tell other groups they are also allowed to set up a display. The atheists put up a sign. The wind tore it to pieces. The Lord works in mysterious ways!

  5. Why has it become so popular to bend to the will of one or a few whinny, inmature “adults”. If you don’t like something don’t look at it. Having one person’s will imposed over the majority may be the easy way out but it is not right and just sad. The statue looked beautiful.

      • [a] If you can’t see, so you are BLIND;
        [b] If you can’t hear, so you are DEAF;
        [c] If you can’t understand, so you are RETARD/ MENTALLY IMPAIRED .

        Which one fits you?
        Judging by the results Apparently ALL of the above!!!
        Have a lovely weekend as well.

      • Suck on this terrorist fellator…………

        +290 million victims of Islamic terror.

        January 10, 2013 at 8:02am

        +290 million victims of Islamic terror.

        120 million Africans, according to Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, page 62, in 1888.

        80 million Hindus, according to Koenard Elst, in Negationism in India, page 34. also Tarikh-i-Yamini , al-Utbi, Mahmud al-Ghazni’s secretary and Ibn Battuta memoirs

        60 million Christians, according to David Barrett and Todd Johnson, in World Christian Trends AD 30 to AD 2200, page 230. and by RaphaelMoore in History of Asia Minor

        10 million Buddhists. [David B. Barrett, Todd M.Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-1.

        And 220,000 Jews, just in one year, 1146, in Morocco, according to H. Z. Hirschberg, A History of the Jews of North Africa, 1974, page 127-28

        Adding 17 million of Slave trade done and shipped to Islamic countries, Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] Historical survey> Slave-owning societies “. Encyclopædia Britannica.[

        ] and

        And still goes on to this day

        11 million muslims have been killed by the hands of muslims themselves since 1948,

        3 million bangladeshis were wiped out by the hands of muslims, Encyclopedia Americana (2003), Bangladesh and


        1.5 million Algerians massacred by islamists,

        1.5 million Armenians , according to


        750,000 Assyrians, according to “Native Christians Massacred”: The Ottoman Genocide of the Assyrians during World War I , Genocide Studies and Prevention, Volume 1, Number 3 / December 2006

        500,000 to 1.5 Million Killed in Iran-Iraq War acording to

        1 million Greeks (+3 Million displaced) , according to “Greeks Hatzidimitriou, Constantine G., American Accounts Documenting the Destruction of Smyrna by the Kemalist Turkish Forces: September 1922, New Rochelle, New York: Caratzas, 2005, p. 2. – ALSO: The Genocide of the Ottoman Greeks: Studies on the State-Sponsored Campaign of Extermination of the Christians of Asia Minor (1912-1922) and Its Aftermath: History, Law, Memory. – ALSO:

        300,000 Ugandans killed in the 8 year rule of Idi Amin from 1971 according to

        400,000 Darfurians according to “United humans Rights Council”


        70,0000 Kurds acording to, The Suppression of the Dersim Rebellion in Turkey (1937-38) Page 4

        20,000 Syrians killed by Al-Assad Senior 1981 in according to

        10,000 Killed in Iran in 1988 for dissidence according to

        For 2010; 9,213 people were killed by the hands of islamists and 16,987 were injured, according to FBI, CIA. and

        For 2011; 9,068 people were killed by the hands of islamists and 16,900 were injured, according to FBI, CIA. and

        Totaling, since September 2001 to September 2012 has had approximately 19,600 terror attacks made by muslims.

      • Yeah uh, terrorism is bad obviously. WTF does any of this have to do with a statue? I appreciate your attempt to come up with some actual facts in addition to your usual accusations of homsexual relations but maybe you could try to stay on topic?

      • It’s pretty simple [email protected] When some POS puts up garbage like you in spewing ‘The rights of one outweigh the will of the many’ in defending the anti Christian crowd, I figured a little history lesson in Christian hatred in practice was in order. Now why don’t you take your pithy anti Christian attitude to the ME where your fellow Islamo terrorist scum could use a POS like you? Obviously it hot a nerve with your dumb and woefully ignorant azz. Use your phukkin head moron before you take up for religious bigots.

      • Good ISIS humper. Obviously you know what’s important here. Now go play with your terrorist scum pals lefty.

      • Separation of church and state is the same as supporting a foreign terrorist organization that in no way believes in separating religion and government. . Got it. Thumbs up. Good logic you’ve got there.

      • Not what you said AQ boy. Go away and lick your wounds Paula. You’ve been exposed as the ISIS loving Christian hating bigot you are.

      • Lick my wounds? You’re not even swinging at me. You’re attacking some ludicrous strawman that only you can see. Go take your meds you deluded old geezer.

      • Yeah. Lick ’em punk. You puked up some stupid anti Christian bigotry and got your ISIS filled mouth smacked for it. Now go lick it.

      • Lol, so manly. You’re my favorite Internet Tough Guy. But for the record I still haven’t said anything about ISIS, that’s all you.

      • Oh, you’re illiterate? Now I feel bad for mocking you. You just keep on typing little guy. You’re doing so good!

      • Yeah, somehow I don’t think I’m going to take writing tips from a guy whose highest aspiration is to sneak one past a profanity filter. You want to talk about the statue some more or are you going to call me a terrorist supporter and declare victory again?

      • Stop embarrassing yourself Paula. Your ISIS handlers got a little sumpin’ for ya on a Saturday night.

      • One more time. I am not talking about ISIS. I have never been talking about ISIS. That is you. You are the one who is talking about ISIS. You are also the one who seems to think that you can make something true just by saying it over and over and over and over again. This thread is about a statue. In America. And a bunch of Christians who feel butthurt because it turns out it’s illegal for the government to recognize one religion and not others. There is literally no connection between that and ISIS.
        You can’t hurt my feelings, because you’re too stupid to be able to do that. The only emotions you are provoking in me are pity and mild annoyance.

      • I’ve seen enough of your Islamo psycho apologists/anti Christian posts to have you egged exactly the way I’ve stated. You DO remember the title of the article, don’t you?

      • Link to a comment I’ve made in which I supported ISIS. Or shut up.
        The article tries to draw a comparison between whiny Christian babies not getting their own way in this country and terrorist attacks by muslims in France. This is such a ludicrous concept that I didn’t even bother engaging it. ISIS was not mentioned in the article either btw.

      • What a pathetic waste of a perfectly good computer. You should donate that thing to somebody who’s capable of reasoned thought. Keep the keyboard though. You can watch Fox News and wail away on the keyboard pretending you’re sending angry messages in ALL CAPS to all the ISIS supporters out there who have a slightly different interpretation of the 1st Amendment from you. You’re a sad little man and I hope you never meet an actual jihadist.

      • [[ What a pathetic waste of a perfectly good computer ]]

        Good boy. At least yer fessin’ up.
        I accept the rest of your infected rant as a surrender. Good doggy!

    • You said, “Having one person’s will imposed over the majority”…Is one of the dynamic “checks and balances” of the Constitution as it prevents, “The tyranny of the majority over the minority.”
      And simply telling others that they don’t have to look at it is incredibly arrogant and completely misses the point. It’s ILLEGAL! That’s the point! Why does that simple premise not get through to all you folks who don’t understand the establishment clause? Maybe because you don’t understand the establishment clause?
      And the statue would look even more beautiful on private land.

  6. This is America. We have no state religion, no “christian towns.” Religious flags and symbols belong on private property, not property owned by the tax payers.

    • Totally false – the state religion in America is Atheism and atheists are committing cultural genocide against Christians.

      • Mm-Mm-Bwahahahaha. Cultural genocide. Please explain your ridiculous hyperbole and cite how Atheists are committing “cultural genocide” against Christians. You’ve got a big list of victims right?

      • Evolution is a basic tenant of Atheism, along with humanism. They are taught with religious fervor at nearly every public school and university in the country, and their priests will accept NO other teachings. The social “sciences” have devolved into a years-long screed against Christian beliefs, treating them as though they were wholly founded in any of a number of -phobes, without any representation of Christian opposing thought.

        Other frequent attacks are against the practice of Christianity by the military, the mention of Christian beliefs, the oppression of those opposed to the un-definition of marriage complete with threats to their income and bankruptcy, the attempts to force Christians to pay for abortions, the prohibitions of prayer in schools and the public square, and direct assualts on Christians in public, attacks of vandalism and disruption of services. Alow me to caution you that just because something isn’t reported in the anti-Christ media is no sign it did’nt happen: they don’t think attacks on Christians are worthy of news. Just like AG Holder doesn’t think attacks by blacks on whites’ Constitutional rights are worthy of prosecuting.

      • I don’t think you meant to write “tenant”, defined as one who leases or rents property. I believe you meant “tenet”? A principle doctrine or belief held as truth, amirite? Sure I am.
        Look, Evolution, or common descent, is a fact. It is irrelevant if you don’t believe it and I couldn’t care less. However if you understood it, you’d know it to be true.
        And unfortunately for creationists, because of the discovery of “molecular biology”, we know that Genesis could not possibly have happened. Now as a believer, doesn’t that make you think a bit? I know, a dangerous pastime indeed, but I mean, if Genesis didn’t happen then there was no garden, no Adam and Eve, no veggie-eating T-Rex, no talking serpent with legs, no magic tree and…no God.
        Which means there was no “Fall”. And if there was no Fall, QED, there’s no need for a loophole in the person of Scapegoat Jesus that we’ve been forever told we need to get our chance at a lottery ticket to immortality, or something.
        How about that. I guess we were not all born in shame and guilt and sin for merely being born human after all.
        Sorry but your stuff after “social sciences” was just way too disjointed to be coherently followed. My bad…I guess.
        You’ve just got to be a fan of Fox’s shameless and fraudulent Christian martyrdom and persecution correspondent, Todd Starnes. Every single story of persecution he details seems to fall apart a few days after his reporting of it. That’s because others investigate and find that the story was completely false. From 6 year olds who claim a teacher told her she couldn’t say grace over her lunch (Turns out the kid’s dad coincidentally works for the company publishing Todd’s latest book. Oops),
        to photographers, bakers, and florists who, in fact, were not persecuted for their beliefs but thought they had a right, a special right that apparently only Christians have, to discriminate against anyone or anything that doesn’t comport with their subjective religious worldview. Unfortunately they were all in jurisdictions that had anti-discrimination ordinances or laws that included sexual orientation and gender identity protections. Oh the humanity!
        There are no attempt to force Christians to pay for abortions. What wing-nut site did you read that on?
        Prayers are not prohibited in “public” schools. The only things you cannot do are teach students how to pray, teach them the Bible (or any other holy book), or make them listen to prayer. In other words, no teacher, coach or school administrator facilitated prayer. Only student prayer. That’s it.
        Students are free to pray or read the bible any time that is not instructional time. They can pray in the morning before school, in the afternoon after school, by the flag pole, in the library, in a group or by themselves, at breaks, recess and of course lunch, and maybe just before that killer algebra test. Schools are even required by law to provide space for approved religious clubs to meet after school just like non-religious clubs. And I’ve never heard of anyone stopping someone from praying in public unless they’ve become an obnoxious public disruption. And what vandalism and disruption of services? I mean, you’re either being cryptic or you are just raging incoherently. Which is it?
        And if something has happened and the “anti-Christ” medial is not reporting it. Why aren’t you doing so, all the while providing the evidence of such attacks? Hmm?
        And just what oppression are those opposed to the un-definition(sic) of marriage suffering? Look, passing laws that allow same-sex couples to have the same legally recognized marriages as everyone else no more changes or “un-defines marriage any more than allowing black people or women to vote changes or un-defines voting. It’s inevitable and I suggest you get over it.
        That bit about the US AG not thinking that “attacks by blacks on whites’ Constitutional(sic) rights are worthy of prosecuting.” First, what attacks? Who, what, when, where and how? Again you rage but refuse to cite any evidence or examples.
        Well, you know what really sad? Allen West, the owner of this site would probably sympathize with you about that blacks attacking white constitutional rights thing.
        And because you’re the guy that claimed it, again without citing any evidence or examples, the only thing left to say to you is, do your sheets come with a hood or do you have to buy it separate?
        Words have consequences and apparently you’ve yet to learn this, or you simply refuse to.

  7. “Americans for Separation of Church and State” The name says it all. The Constitution does advocate separation; it simply says in plain English that the “state” shall not establish a religion. In plain English a religion is a belief (faith) system. Definitions of all groups discussing this issue include “belief” as the basis of what
    cannot be scientifically proven. The Constitution guarantees the freedom of expression of one’s belief. There is no mention in the Constitution as to where the expression must be contained; in public, in court, or on private property.
    “Americans for Separation of Church and State” have stated the intent of their case as a means of expressing “their” beliefs. Now, “They” want, as others before, for the “Court”, as official representatives of the “State”, to find in their favor. In simple English, and without tweaking definitions to fit the bias, atheists/nihilists wish to establish their belief system as the church of the state. I respect their right to the expression.
    Rationally, the idea of separation of church and state would mean that the laws of each do not apply to the other. A church (belief system) would not spread its belief but would use its power to further its own end regardless of what others believe. We are seeing, in France and here, what separation means to the “believers” who pretend to have no “state”.
    Irrationally the judges of our court system continually agree to allow arguments to continue over this issue so that they may apply their own bias in “judgment”.
    No matter what the belief system is, a “judge” is placing his bias (belief) in favor of one belief over another. The “Courts” allowing these cases to continue ad infinitum are in violation of the plain English language of the Constitution. That’s my belief.

  8. The city should have an auction for the memorial for the family members of the deceased veterans buried there, the person who wins the auction should then put the memorial on their loved ones grave as a marker. Those burial plots are private property for each individual family, they bought them, they own them. That organization has no say so over private property. Shouldn’t have any say so any way.

    • Right, but be advised, the city cannot limit the auction to just churches or expressly religious organizations. Anyone who can come up with the minimum requirement of cash has to be able to make open or sealed bids for the property.
      And who knows, maybe Anti-theists would win the auction. Then waddaya gonna do, hmm?

  9. Hopefully, we will never fall to the level of having “police free” zones like the French; however, given the current state of affairs, I fear that we are on that path as well.

    • WE already have….Deerborn, MI….run by Islamic Chief of Police, and the Muslims. Whites are stoned when they go there…especially if they speak of Jesus!

      • Suppose every bit of that were true. Welcome to the side that believes the monument should be taken down and that there should be separation of church and state! Have some cookies, there’s plenty of coffee at the back.

        Funny how people only favor theocracy when it’s their religion that’s in the majority…

      • Having that monument where it is is a choice made by that municipality. It has nothing to do with a state sponsored religion… no more than if they had a statue of a bunny would mean that the state were sponsoring rule by rabbit, or if they had an old Ford truck in a public memorial would mean that Ford Motors was running the town.

        When Liberals speak of separation of church and state they mean “eliminate God”. History speaks clearly to this issue and verifies the simplicity of the First Amendment, in that: the founders were for the most part religious men who prayed in their public and private lives, and insisted on defending the rights of others to do so openly, and to express their religious beliefs publicly. They insisted also on No State Religion. They respected the rights of all to worship as they saw fit and they erected, with tax dollars, monuments honoring the Biblical basis for their beliefs and practices which lead to the Revolution and the subsequent formation of this great union.

        Monuments honoring the religious nature of the men and women who fought and died for our freedom and country are good and right to have in the public places, for to remember such conflict is to remain grateful for what we have.

        Removing such memorials is offensive and mean, and dishonors the work and sacrifices of those who have gone before us.

        Honestly, if one can really be offended by such, it can only be because of a serious mental disorder.

      • Let’s take your points in order as they’re written.
        Yes it was a choice by the municipality. The wrong choice. The SCOTUS has ruled that single religious displays on government or public property to be equivalent of or tantamount to, government endorsing one religion over others and is unconstitutional. Bunnies and Fords not withstanding.
        It is either the height of paranoia or pure hyperbole to think that Liberals think they can eliminate belief in God. What “history” clearly speaks to the “Separation” issue and verifies the “simplicity” of the 1st Amendment? (This is nothing more than pure political pablum, dude.)
        So the founders were religious, so what? It doesn’t mean we must all be religious because the founders were. People are not “Real Americans” or better citizens just because they’re religious.
        And no, the “Establishment Clause” was not only instituted to give everyone the freedom to worship as they see fit”. The founders saw the historical horror in Europe when the Church influenced or controlled governments. The crusades, the inquisitions, etc.. The founders wanted true religious freedom for all faiths. Not just Christianity.
        Please identify, if you can, the expressly religious monument paid for with taxpayer dollars that resides on public property. It either doesn’t exist or you are under a misapprehension about an existing structure’s status.
        There are no monuments that are expressly religious veteran’s memorials, at least on government land. There may be an appeal to a posterity, non-Christian God. In other words, no crosses or other expressly religious symbols on any monument on government land. On private lands there are plenty of religious memorials but they’re not on government land either so there are no establishment issues.
        Removing expressly religious memorials, even to our cherished veterans, that reside on public or government property is no more than requiring the administrators to follow and respect the law.
        Which expressly states no religious expressions on government land.
        Now, I don’t think you have a serious mental disorder just because of your position on this issue.
        You’re just frustrated that you think your religious freedom and liberty is in serious danger.
        Well, it’s not. However, your religious privilege and deference is and it won’t be long before you really understand that. Much to your disappointment.
        Really. Breaks. My. Heart.

      • You really want to destroy these sacred expressions honoring the spiritual act of devotion that these soldiers gave. In their final memorial resting place, no less. That is an expression of the unofficial state religion of Atheism, rather than honoring the beliefs of most of the soldiers. You’re the one who is sick. You’re the one who won’t tolerate the beliefs of most Americans.

        Would you require these soldiers to stay out of the military if they are joining up for spiritual reasons? If they feel inspired by God to protect their country and freedoms and family? That is a violation of your “wall of separation” isn’t it? No, I suspect you realize that no army can be made up of Atheists. Even many Communist armies were made up of Christians.

        And the so called wall of separation is cited so often, even though it is an extra-Constitutional phrase. It is cited more than the actual First Amendment. But then, those who cite it don’t really want people to know what the amendment itself says, do they? In fact it was never mentioned in the deliberations leading to the Constitution. It was just a musing of a retired politician. And he is referring to the protections of a particular Christian sect against another’s over-reach. Not the Christian religion as a whole. By the way, how high is that wall? 2 feet, 5 feet, 12 feet? It makes a difference. Does it have a gate? How big is the gate?

        Really, most American Atheists are frustrated Communists. So sad that your religion just doesn’t seem to actually work, practically speaking.

      • Wow. You really are a hateful SOB aren’t you? “Final memorial resting place?” WTF does that mean?
        It’s a memorial you moron, not a cemetery. There are no bodies there, in spirit or otherwise.
        And for the last time troop, atheism is not a religion, unofficial or otherwise and you know it. Your just trolling. There are no hymns, no silly supernatural dogma, no crazy doctrines like “transubstantiation”, no regular meetings to reenforce disbelief and btw, I’m not an Atheist.
        An Atheist might well wish it to be true. They might like the music, the fellowship, the good works with the poor, sick, and indigent. However, they just can’t bring themselves to believe that a cosmic, Jewish zombie, who is his own father can make them live forever if they symbolically eat of his flesh and telepathically accept him as their master so he can remove a force of evil from their souls put there by a rib-woman who was convinced by a talking snake with legs to eat from a magic tree. Sounds so plausible, doesn’t it?
        I am an anti-theist. I believe that religion is the greatest pox, (next to slavery which, btw, your “good book” endorses and has warrants for), ever foisted upon mankind and has brought death and destruction to millions throughout the centuries and continues even today with radical wahabiist Islam.
        However, my disdain for all religion, Christianity holding a special place of dishonor in my view, does not mean I seek to destroy anything about anyone’s religion.
        I must defer to the Constitution that declares that all persons have a constitutional right to believe in any faith, or no faith, that they so choose. Further, you and I and everyone else are legally compelled to respect and honor that right.
        However, and this is what Christians don’t seem to understand, because they invariably think that somehow, their sincerely held religious faith automatically deserves respect from everyone for no other reason than it’s their religion and can get quite upset if one does not show appropriate deference. Obviously this is a false dichotomy.
        I am not legally compelled or required to respect whatever religion people choose to believe, I don’t, and I certainly won’t ever respect religion. But that’s just me.
        Your concept of historical events leaves much to be desired. Your explanation of the Establishment Clause is laughable and has no basis in fact.
        And your disrespectful characterization of Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists as “the musings of a retired politician” does great injustice to Jefferson’s brilliant and accurate explanation and is completely devoid of the facts and ignores the historical significance of that time in history.
        And to top it all off you claim that American Atheists are “frustrated Communists?” Seriously, are you channeling John Birch now?
        Yeah, well, not so sad. Atheism isn’t a religion so you know, it wouldn’t actually work as a religion, practically speaking supergenius.

      • Do Tell! Tell the facts! The Chief was a Muslim, last I checked. Whites were stoned for speaking of Jesus, at a festival. Try to say those were not true. So I did not spell it correctly. Sorry for being human! Not! Why don’t you take your sorry “useful idiot” self back to Dearborn and have at it!

      • I have no idea whether he’s a Muslim or not. It’s none of my business just like it would be none of my business if he was a Lutheran. He’s Arab-American which is probably close enough for a bigot like yourself though.

      • Soooo, actually you are someone who has decried far less influence by Christians as being unconstitutional, and can’t accept the well documented prejudicial actions of a Muslim. He refused to prosecute other Muslims who assaulted Christians under color of authority of the festival. The Christians eventually won a federal case against him. But all that didn’t appear in the anti-Christ news, so it must not have happened.

      • Police chiefs don’t prosecute people. That’s the job of a prosecutor. You can tell because of the name.

      • I have no words to express what a clueless fool you are in that you believe anything you’re told so long as it comports with what you want to hear rather that what is really the truth. Do you seriously believe that Sharia law is being instituted in cities with large Muslim population?

      • Yes In Dearborn..yes…do some research…away from the controlled media..and you might find the TRUTH for a change!

      • Nah, You made the claim, the accusation, the burden of proof lies with you. I’d rather hear the details from the source with citations from that so-called uncontrolled media.
        Otherwise you’ve no credibility and you’re just Trolling.
        So put up or shut up.

    • Hi. Yeah, it’s a long post but I would appreciate reading all of it.
      When you first heard about “police free” zones in France, did it confirm what you thought you knew about Muslim Immigration in that country? Was it something you didn’t mind hearing about in spite of its disturbing ramifications, that the gendarmerie is prohibited from entering certain Muslim conclaves due to Sharia law? Perhaps purely as a wake-up call for the US?
      Did you try to confirm it? Anywhere? I mean, even the so-called mainstream media would’ve covered a story like that. French cops not allowed to even go into sections of their own jurisdiction? I mean…Wow.
      Did you even google it? That is, weren’t you interested to see who claimed it, who discredited it, who claimed evidence for or against, etc.? Y’know what I’m talking about. Just a cursory “do-dilligence” research to confirm or bust a serious story like that.
      Well I did. The source of this story was Uber-Islamaphobe and weapons-grade bigot, Robert Spencer, a sycophant of the notoriously Islamaphobic and all-around Muslim hater Pamala Geller, and on an appearance on Fox’s Sean Hannity show on Jan. 9th, 2015, Spencer falsely claimed that, “The French government lists on a public web-site 751 no-go areas, where essentially the police have no authority, the French state has no authority and Islamic law prevails.”
      This claim is a big fat lie.
      There is an actual French government web-site that Spencer is referring to (but does not specifically identify) and the list of so-called “no-go areas” are actually designated by the French government as “zones” that are seriously economically depressed, and the government is in the process of bringing investment and business opportunities to these zones. Y’know, jobs and revenue.
      The zones are call “Zone Urbaine Sensibles” or ZUS. Translated: Sensitive Urban Zone.
      The only mention of the police I could find was that a lot of these zones don’t have as much police presence as in other areas. The government is going to change that and utilize a spearheading movement that the police will be part of by doing community outreach and services to help reduce more crime and attract investment to these zones.
      Mati, you perpetuated a lie claimed by an intolerant bigot. So I’m curious.
      Why didn’t you confirm the story’s veracity? Were you just lazy? Were you just unintentionally careless, or did you just not care?
      Y’know, I’m willing to bet you saw Spencer’s interview with Hannity. You and how many others watching that show (if you did) were used by Spencer (and ultimately Hannity) to repeat the lie here and who knows how many other venues?
      You do understand that, coming from that bigot Spencer, whose official as well as personal agenda is to marginalize, demonize and generally promote hatred of all things Islam, the intent of the lie had no other purpose but to sow fear and loathing of Muslims, including Muslim-Americans.

      So next time you see Spencer or Hannity, I wouldn’t blame you if you suddenly felt you had to take a shower. I’d feel that way too if I was used like that by someone I trusted.
      Thanks for reading it through.

      • Isn’t city the property of “We the People” ???

        “Government OF the People, BY the People, FOR the People, shall not perish from the earth.”

      • And despite the propaganda the christians are spewing – a lot of people don’t want the christan flag . . but when they speak up, they are threatened with harm. watch the video to see how many did speak and up the threats that were captured on video, which the police would do nothing about.

    • Why should religious flags and symbols be allowed on public property that is owned by all tax payers? If you allow one, then you must allow all of them. It’s so much easier to keep religious symbolism on private property and keep public property secular and open to all.

      • There is NO separation of church, and state in the Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence. Read your history. This belief is all because of a letter Jefferson wrote to the Baptists. It was his opinion…not a LAW.

      • In Reynolds v. US the court had the following to say about Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptists and it’s relevance to the meaning of the 1st Amendment
        “coming as this does from an acknowledged leader of the advocates of the measure, it may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment thus secured.”
        So the Supreme Court of 1878 thinks you’re full of crap basically.

      • 1) nothing in the Declaration of Independence is a law. It doesn’t have the force of law.
        2) try making that argument in court and see how quickly you get laughed out of the room.

      • Nothing in the Declaration of Independence has the force of law save it’s sole, original intent to declare our sovereignty from the British Crown. Nothing within the DoI compels a citizen to agree with anything in the DoI except that sole intent.

      • Jeez, keepyourpower, this is the third clueless statement you’ve made on this page alone.
        Look, Jefferson’s letter was to explain to the Danbury, CT Baptists that their concern that the new Constitution would not prevent the Congregationalists, the dominant religious and political faction in the state at the time, from discriminating against them politically and financially, was unfounded as “a wall of separation between religion and government will exist preventing the Congregationalists holding governmental power from persecuting or preventing the Baptists in Danbury, CT from participation in the political process.
        But yes, KYP, the actual words, “Separation of Church and State” are not in the Constitution.
        However, the actual words, “Representative Democracy” and “Democratic Republic” are ALSO not in the Constitution. But you’d be just as ignorant and foolish to argue that those principles are also not in the Constitution.

        Take your own advice and “read you history.” Just make sure it’s not by that champion Liar-for-Jesus and All-American history Christian revisionist David Barton.

      • Well, Reasonoverhate… The First Amendment specifies the right to do so. Allowing expression of faith is expressly mandated in the US Constitution. All decisions made by all courts which require the removal of religious symbols are unconstitutional in spite of the sitting judges who made those decisions. Your tax dollars and mine support plenty of things that any of us hate to support. Picking on Christian symbols and monuiments which have stood for ages and in many cases were placed by folks who fought and toiled defending these rights is a uniquely hateful act of deranged, self – serving jackasses without a single moral fiber.

      • This country was founded on the idea of religious freedom. That means you get to believe what you want to believe but you also do not get to impose your ideology onto the rest of the citizenry. Our gov’t cannot endorse any one specific religion. Flying a Christian flag on public property is endorsement. Ever wonder why it’s always religious fundamentalists that claim there is no separation of church and state?

      • Putting up a statue is not a an imposition of religion, it is an appreciative acknowledgement that the deaths of those who protect us is a spiritual event. The ranks of our military services

        are overwhelmingly represented by Christians who join partly because of spiritual inclinations. I guess you’re one those who pretend that soldiers don’t have a spiritual life. Perhaps you actually believe that a society should be “post-Christian” like all those bankrupt European countries. Won’t it be great when we all fall prey to the violence and oppression of the Islamic extremists, just as most Muslims do now. You may not be aware, but Star Trek was a fantasy.

    • Uh…My guess would be…BECAUSE THEY WOULD STILL LOSE!!
      It’s not a matter of money. It is a matter of law and the law is clear. No singular religious displays. It must be open to all religious faiths should they choose to participate.
      However, as I said before, the best solution is to allow no religious displays at all.
      And who do you think you are anyway, Fox News? There is no war on Vets or our military. Jeebus!

      • Really? That’s it? A bible verse?
        Wow. What. A. Slammer.
        A verse that is so non-sequiter, it’s absolutely meaningless to me (in the sense that it’s weapons grade BS), and is void of any intellectual value.

        Well, except perhaps to clue me in that you are possibly incapable of debate on this issue and cannot speak or think for yourself intelligently enough to explain or express your position that if the city just had all the money they need, they would win.
        So all you can do is cite a bible verse that ironically was not meant for me, but was expressly meant for you, the believer.
        It is just one of many warnings in scripture that admonishes you to quickly put your fingers in your ears and go, “La-la-la-la-la and not to listen to blasphemous or heretical points of view that may actually be verifiable fact, so that you’ll always remain obedient, ignorant…and faithful.
        Thanks for your comment.

      • “WISE men speak because they have something to say; FOOLS just because they want to say something.” – attributed to Plato

        P.S. Sorry, but I do NOT waste my time on debate with IGNORAMUS

        “Do not answer a FOOL according to his folly, lest you also be like him.” – King Solomon (Proverbs 26:5)

  10. First and foremost. My grandfather and Uncle’s fought for this country just like the men and women enlisted today. Not everybody has the same beliefs and no-one is going to agree on this. But,my God what does it take to ensure everyone’s rights are being looked at? I don’t care what atheist say about they don’t believe in God cause that’s a lie. You have to believe in order not to believe that something is real. There are no atheist in a fox hole cause you still call on a god or goddess depending on your beliefs. This Country was founded on the Christian beliefs read your history. Our forefathers all weren’t Christians. The separation of Church and state was due to taxes. There again nothing to do with someone’s beliefs. Now when you lay your head down tonight on your pillow THANK A SOLDIER!!!!!!!!!! JUST goes to show how people really feel about others.Nothing no more then Bullies and we wonder where the kids learn it from.

  11. watch that movie that was made from these events, then you’ll see the terrorist tactics used by the “christians” to threaten anyone who disagrees. threats of violence, of running them out of business, getting them fired, physical attacks. there is not a majority that supports the flag, the majority stays quiet out of fear. Had they put up a representation of EVERY religion that the military recognizes, this wouldn’t have happened. Instead, they only deem christian veterans worthy of recognition.

      • Actually it was a lottery every week and yeah, we all know that it was presented to the public as such.
        However, publicly accessed emails between involved parties proved this was a blatant scam to keep the Christian flag displayed for all but a few weeks per year. Do your homework bro.

  12. If they had been intelligent City officials they would have contacted the ACLJ, or another pro bono law center, to take on those heathens! And…they could have gone to, or another site, and asked for funds to fight these true “useful idiots”. Stupid is as stupid does…

    • Yeah, I commented on the ACLJ and a couple of others. You might want to skip down my post and read about these insidious law firms.

      • Oh, I dunno. Nah, I think I’ll stick around. I suppose I’m just fed up with clowns like you trying to piss on my leg and telling me it’s raining.

  13. Concerning issues like this, I have been conditioned to automatically roll my eyes, and again wonder: When will these over-zealous, Christian folk, who are invariably indignantly obsessed about situations like this, who I’m quite sure all profess to love the US Constitution and all that it stands for, finally understand how it works?
    There would be none of these state/church misunderstandings and the Ted Starnes of the world would have zero credibility in their attempts convince the low-information, American religious Booboisie of terrible Christian persecution in the US where there is none. There is only the stripping away of Christian privilege and deference which, constitutionally, has never existed in the first place. Christianity is not and never will be the de facto State Religion!
    We must all understand that government, whose publicly-owned grounds includes city halls, court houses and their annexes; police and fire stations and their substations; public schools; city or county municipal maintenance yards; parks or recreation areas; or any other property owned by the local, county or state governments, cannot favor one religion over another or over no religion, and so too cannot allow one religion’s holiday display on any of those aforementioned public grounds, to the exclusion of other religion’s or no religion’s holiday displays under the Constitution and SCOTUS precedent.
    Which means that for a religious holiday display to be legal, other religion’s and no religion must be afforded the opportunity to participate by putting up a holiday display of their own, on public grounds, if they so desire.
    Of course that means Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Atheist, Secular Humanist, and even the Satanists must all be allowed to participate, just to mention a few.
    So Christians, wouldn’t the best answer for this entire issue be to not allow any displays at all on government/public property? Put those Nativity scenes or menorahs on church, temple or other private grounds. And put as many of them as you’d like. Same with Christian flags on every house or lawn. Completely legal and a fine expression of Christian Unity within the community. It certainly would solve the problem. Imho, the flag on every house is a completely innocuous yet silly attempt to protest and express displeasure that the very document the would profess to support prohibits their belief of singular Christian privilege and deference.
    But I digress…So, of course the King City Council settled. What else were they supposed to do? They were advised by their legal counsel that they wouldn’t win. It should be noted that when the Council publicly announced their settlement decision, they mendaciously claimed that they were told that there was no “guarantee” that they would prevail”, when, in fact, there was absolutely no chance they could win as their insurance carrier told them so and threatened to cancel their policy should they pursue this legal forlorn hope. They had to comply with the law regardless of what the local Christian majority, stupefyingly ignorant of constitutional law, was demanding.
    Further, there is indeed, no such thing as “majority rules” when it comes to the constitutionality of any law. The founders specifically included “checks and balances” into the document to “prevent the tyranny of the majority over the minority.” A well-used, time-worn phrase, yet absolutely relevant and an accurate description of just one of the brilliant dynamics of the Constitution.
    I’ve read here many excellent alternative suggestions. Such as selling the government-owned ground to a private buyer. However there may be a caveat as the city charter may prohibit the sale of city property to a single private buyer without open, competitive bidding, unless there is a quid pro quo that, for example, involves a company or corporation setting up a factory or a headquarters that brings jobs and/or revenue to the city.
    Additionally, the constitutional prohibitions against favoring one religion over others or no religion, falls into play here. A city cannot not even have the appearance of favoring one religion and would in fact be doing so by selling the property to the church for a sweetheart deal of a dollar, for solely religious purposes, which is tantamount to a donation to the church, of which the Constitution prohibits government from doing.
    The Constitution does not operate on a “common sense” basis or ideal. Which many of the Christian faithful seem to believe. Rather, it is a deep and brilliant document created by brilliant men with the goal of preserving freedom (and yeah, making law for unfettered yet sensibly regulated capitalism so if you got the chance you could make a lot of money.)
    Ed Brayton from Free thought blogs said this about common sense. To paraphrase, “There’s no such thing as common sense. It’s a made up phrase to give ignorant, uneducated persons a sense of intellectual parity with those who actually know what their talking about.”
    Learn about the Constitution. Do not listen or take seriously Christian law firms like the ACLJ, Liberty Counsel, or the Thomas Moore Law Center. Their agenda is to chip away at the “Establishment Clause” that prohibits government from endorsing, sponsoring, or promoting “Christianity”, not all religions, just Christianity. Which doesn’t sound like religious freedom for other religions, does it? They’re forever cajoling Pastors to violate IRS prohibitions against politicking from the pulpit, saying they’ll defend them pro bono, or for free, not telling them that when they lose they’ll be on the hook for attorney’s fees just as King City was.
    Wise up people!
    Oh yeah. Allen West is not only an ignorant, right-wing fascist for claiming the King City episode is analogous of the terrorist murders in Paris, he is also a war criminal.

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