2nd Amendment rights a wrong: father shoots 2 men attacking his daughter

The liberal media will always go CRAZY when someone suffering from a mental illness uses a gun to kill. However, you never hear when the use of a gun saves a life – and I don’t think Obama will be praising this particular dad.

At about 11pm on Monday, a 17-year-old girl was getting something from her car parked in front of her house. As reported by Fox2News in St. Louis, two men, both with guns, grabbed her and began to push her back into the home with a gun to her head. Her father, who says he was visiting the girl and her mother, saw the gunmen and pulled his own weapon. He says he had no choice but to fire. “He was holding her hostage. She was a human shield. So I did what I had to do.”

The girl’s father shot and killed one suspect and injured the other.

Asked how he had the confidence to pull the trigger when the man was holding his daughter that way, he said, “It wasn’t like that. It just happened. I didn’t have no choice. He had my daughter so I did what I had to do.”

The father said he was sorry for what the families of the two suspects are going through, but he says he had no choice. “My condolences goes out to all the families involved. I don’t know him. I wish it hadn’t happened. So like I said, to the moms, fathers, all the other people involved, I apologize,” he said.

The man he shot and killed was Terrell Johnson, 31, of St. Louis. The second suspect, who the father says was wearing a mask, is Cortez McClinton, 33, also of St. Louis. The two suspects were no strangers to police. Terrell Johnson, the dead man, had served time in the Missouri prison system for first-degree robbery. Having been given a sixteen-year sentence. Cortez McClinton was charged with first-degree murder in the 2010 killing of Brian Reed.

The father asked that his name not be used but one thing is for certain — he is a hero to his daughter. He showed that even though he doesn’t live with her, he is still her dad, her protector, and thank goodness he was able to exercise his 2nd Amendment right on that night.

And I believe this man represents the essence of what Father’s Day is all about. So to this man that I will never meet, Happy Fathers Day, you done good and make all us dads with daughters very proud.

408 COMMENTS

  1. I am so glad that under our 2nd Amendment, you were still able to protect your daughter, your family! I don’t understand why so many people are gung-ho to take these rights away. It may falsely make them feel warm & fuzzy about their cause but it endangers so many more people than it would help. If they get their way, only the criminals will have guns and we all will be their targets with no self defense to our name.

  2. Col. West, in addition to the article, you mention a key point: mental illness. Nothing is even mentioned of that in the reporting of the murderous rampages by deranged people. Doesn’t it strike anyone odd that in at least 2 of these rampages, the most recent in Las Vegas, the male killer professed to be the Joker character from the Batman comics? That was also true of the Aurora, CO killer, Holmes. Then we have two if not three that were heavily into extremely violent video games. Lastly, almost all were on or had been prescribed psychotropic drugs at one time. It ain’t the guns people. It’s the people.

    • I am into extremely violent video games and I own guns. I have and hopefully will never need to kill anyone.
      Games and guns do not kill people and do not cause people to kill people, bad and sick people kill people.

  3. And I’m certain that the gun that these low-lifes used for this crime was obtained 100% legally (not).

    • Both were criminals and their offenses that were listed would have kept them from legally owning a gun, so, never mind, you already know the gun wasn’t legal.

  4. The guy did the right thing, but could now end up broke the rest of this life. Civil law suits could be his ruin. 🙁

      • He can still be sued for it! It sucks but that is the reality of taking a life, even in self defense. He might win in court, but the lawyer fees are still going to be huge!

  5. The guy is an American hero. He rescued his daughter, saved the taxpayers money and assured there will be no repeat crimes from at least one suspect. I’d say, Justice was pretty well served in this case.

      • with all due respect, I would just like some clarification on that statement. He apologized to the families of the perpetrators and you are saying he was showing respect? Please clarify if you would because I for one agree with Michael. Now if he said he was sorry that the situation had to occur at all or he was sorry he had to do what he did, I can understand but I don’t think he needed to apologize to the people that raised garbage that was trying to attack his daughter and do God only knows with her once they would have gotten her into the house had she been alone or only with her mother, so in my humble opinion, I don’t think any respect was warranted.

      • John D: While there are WAY too many people out there who do not care to raise their children the right way or teach them morals or values, there are also many who do everything they can to teach them and it just doesn’t take. My children are law-biding citizens, support themselves and their families, etc. but I have also witnessed families who have children who reject those values. Also, families where only one of the kids go bad while their siblings do not—-these are the families that still deserve respect, because you can’t hold all families for the bad choices their children make, no matter what.

      • So we should automatically assume that this is the case? I’m sorry but I don’t agree. As I said, he can be apologetic for the event, even though he had no hand in initiating the situation or he can be apologetic that it had to end this way but I for one would not be making a blanket statement apology to the families.

      • That stance is making a pretty big leap of faith that he is just the bad seed. While I agree with you in principal, I certainly wouldn’t make an assumption that would cause me in that situation to apologize to the families or 2 criminals that just tried to assault my daughter.

      • Like the respect the 2 criminals had for the mans daughter…that respect…Or the respect they have for themselves??? He saved his daughter and wife…I respect that.

      • They’re called criminals. If less people were them, this world would be a slightly better place. Actually… it IS slightly better now thanks to this dad.

      • Sorry Justin. My respect would’ve ended the moment they placed their hands on my daughter. As for the family members, they are the ones who should be apologizing!

  6. Would someone please tell me why this guy, Cortex McClinton, is allowed on the streets???? He’s already been charged with 1st DEGREE MURDER!!!
    What the hell is wrong with the justice system in St. Louis?? Who in their right mind allows this dangerous criminal to be out walking around seeking out more victims?
    You go Dad – more power to ya!! I must admit, I’m glad I don’t live in St. Louis.

    • Meeeee toooooo, just wonderin’…but with the criminal justice system the way it is now and overcrowding, who knows why this dirt bag was out wandering the streets looking for another victim..

    • Probably because some dude that was charged with having some pot was in the cell instead. “”Crimes”” with No victim, should end… smoking pot should not be a crime. Its keeping the real criminals out of jail due to overcrowding!

  7. I’m appalled at this man, he had every opportunity to speak to these attackers in a calm concise manner, there was no reason for the use of violence, let alone deadly force. The families of these poor men must be devastated by this, he never even gave them the opportunity to explain what was going on, maybe they were trying to protect her from someone….nahhh, just kidding, nice shootin’ there dad, to bad you didn’t kill them both so we wouldn’t be worried about housing and feeding the other dirt bag in jail. Well, at least you got one of them off the streets…good riddance…and have a happy, happy fathers day… 😛

  8. This man should not apologize…the parents of the criminals should apologize to his DAUGHTER…the only thing I have against the dad is he didn’t finish the job…go to the gun range a little more and remember center mass dad…center mass. 2 to the chest and 1 to the head. Keep practicing until it is instinct.

  9. Tow hardened criminals got what was coming to them big deal. That is just gun violence that makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is the kid that has to dodge bullets while in class.

    • While I agree, let’s stick to the issue at hand. Two dirt bags, one in the ground, the other in the hospital (presumably) and on his way to jail shortly… (pops champagne)…

      • I don’t think killing someone whatever circumstances is ever a cause for celebration. Hopefully that man will never have to use his gun in that manner ever again. And mass shootings where mentioned in the article.

      • I agree, its not a celebration to have to kill someone but you would be celebrating that your son is still alive..

      • What would you do in this situation, ask the two men if they want to hold hands and sing Kum ba yah?. Those days are over. Once you step into my home with guns, only one that will be singing is me.

      • I probably would have shot them too in that same situation. If I hypothetically owned a gun. But I would not be wiping their blood and guts off my walls with a smile on my face.

      • Do you think this man really wanted to have to do this? I don’t recall him saying he was over joyed and expressed happiness at having to do it, did you? Where are you getting that he was happy and rejoicing?

      • But you keep inferring he was celebrating and did it with a smile on his face. I don’t know of anyone who wants to kill unless they are mentally ill and does it like the school shootings… No person who legally owns and uses it to protect their families and such want to have to do this sort of thing and certainly don’t celebrate it.. killing someone is a very sad and painful thing to do, you never feel good after and most have to go to counseling because of it.

      • Raf, you kept mentioning “celebrating” and in one post you even stated “But I would not be wiping their blood and guts off my walls with a smile on my face”. That is inferring or concluding, that this man was celebrating and smiling after he shot them. There was nothing in the article that mentioned that he was celebrating or smiling so why did it come up? You said several times you would not celebrate it, then why did you conclude anyone would? Without stating why you said it, or in what context you were concluding that anyone would, it would go back to the article and this guy since this is what we are discussing here.

      • Well then I’m sorry must a misunderstanding. I did not mean to infer anything about his behavior just speculating on what my behavior would be if I went through something like that. It come up not as a reaction to the content of Mr. West post but more as a reaction to some comments. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

      • It is a sad commentary on the moral situation which our nation is faced with when this kind of a discussion is even needed. It is a situation which can be laid directly at the feet of bleeding heart politicians, liberal judges and the legal system and the parole boards who turn this type of scum loose on our society.
        I can understand your respect for human life and I will be the first to say that the taking of human life should not happen under normal circumstances. With that being said, the punks and thugs which we are talking about in this story, have given up their right for any type of consideration because of the life that they have chosen for themselves. They have consciously chosen the role of preditor and even prison has not reformed them. They are a part of the system which really rewards them for their type of lifestyle. Where else in this world can you break the law and end up with a roof and hot shower, cable tv, healthcare, a boyfriend, three squares a day, free internet and libraries and even get paid to stamp out license plates or whatever they do for work.
        With that being said, they cross a line when they come into my home to take what I have labored for or to do bodily harm to anyone in my home and quite honestly they have stepped on their wing-dinger. I will blow them away in a nanosecond. To enter a person’s home with bad intent is to throw away any consideration whatsoever.

      • Funny, that’s were you and I differ philosophically, I would be whistling happily while he was carted away in a black baggie…Although I would probably be pissed if I shot them inside and needed to clean and repaint my walls.

      • Armed guards where present at the last school shooting. One kid and the shooter still died. I know it could have been more if they weren’t there but still one too many.

      • Sure it could, they could have had loads of company to commiserate with, had this not have been stopped.

      • Wow, you just don’t give up, the fact is that it could always be worse, they could have been joined by a dozen others…

      • Yes, one died and it’s a tragedy but it’s a tragedy that could have been significantly worse. So if you are going to continue to harp on the one individual person who unfortunately died, then we can end here because it would have been significantly worse if it were a multitude of people.

      • Go to the nearest big city. Go to Police headquarters there. Try to just walk into the building and get to the top floor.
        Copy those security barriers, armed men, etc, at every school. The kids won’t have to dodge bullets anymore.

        Face the hard reality, and protect the children.

    • The big deal Raf is that if our rights to own weapons, this girl and her mother would probably be dead and the two men still out there to commit further crimes. The big deal is that this father used his right to take care of the situation instead of having to wait for who knows how long for police to arrive and these guys still out there. Yes its a big deal when you have a government and speical rights groups trying to take away our rights to own guns to protect ourselves. because, as you know, criminals are not going to abide by the rules…

      • Like I said below, you are right, no one should celebrate having to kill someone, but sometimes you have to to protect your loved ones. Just imagine if it were you and your son that you mention so many times on here. No law abiding citizen wants to kill but put in that situation, you may have to.

      • Always about the criminals and their rights NEVER about the victim and our rights. Disgusting!
        It is about time the courts do what they are supposed to do and put the criminals behind bars on WORK FARMS not prisons where they live better than they did before prison.

      • And yet it almost seems as if you wish the girl and her mother would have been killed. These men did something illegal, they took a young girl hostage. They have been in and out of jail, once at least for KILLING someone or did you not read the whole article? This girl, her mother, and her father did NOTHING wrong. If those criminals had not been there to cause harm, nothing would have happened to them.

      • Again I’m not saying they did anything wrong. And again I would have done the same thing. And again I don’t say they don’t deserve it. What I’m saying is there a lot of people who die at the end of gun violence that did not deserve it and it’s a fact.

      • That’s true. My brother was murdered by a criminal carrying a gun he had obtained illegally. This criminal got a whopping 10 years for taking another’s life. How sick is that? The man should have been in prison, he had a long history of with the criminal justice system, he had 13 different open convictions but was on probation because several of them where in different counties and the courts didn’t ‘speak’ to each other. Had the department of justice done it’s job this man wouldn’t have even been on the streets and my brother would still be alive. I wish my brother had a gun with him at the time to at least have a fighting chance. Perhaps the end result would have still been the same but I’d prefer he had a chance. And I have never celebrated the death of another.

      • Rafael, now How many are killed by DRUNK drivers? How many are killed by KNIVES? Gosh, we should forbid anyone to drive a car, and those darn knives and hatchets and hammers have absolutely no right to be used. IT is NOT the guns etc that kills ,it is the person. Lets not forget, it was the democrats that decided to shut down the mental hospitals because THEY believed everyone should be able to walk the streets and be free.

      • I think that number would be significantly lower if guns where not easily available. Takes a split second to pull a trigger while other methods require a little more thinking about it.

      • Guns are outlawed in Mexico so guess who has the guns and is terrorizing the innocent citizens with no access to a gun. Guns will always be readily available to the criminal element.

      • Guns are also severely restricted in Canada there was one school shooting since 2006, how many we’ve had in US since 2006? One time a guy shot a home intruder, turns out it was a police officer serving a warrant. The other times legal guns are used in homes is to shoot a lover or family member.

      • Do you think you are going to convince people by parroting the liberal line? You do not know half as much as you think you do! Comparing Canada to the US, is like comparing the US to Mexico. Different cultures, different laws, different results.

      • Yes, they do. Liberals truly cannot understand that just because you make another law, that as a result the criminals will only be given MORE advantages. They simply cannot understand this basic formula. More laws = less freedom for us legal citizens. Heck, they still do not understand that less government and lower taxes STIMULATES business growth. It’s simply above their comprehension.

      • Do you think that criminals aren’t going to find a way to get guns? Do you think that people who are predisposed to violence aren’t going to find another way to commit their crimes or mass killings? McVeigh didn’t use a single gun to being down the building in OKC, Al Qeada didn’t use a single gun to bring down the towers, hit the pentagon and hijack another plane.

      • School shootings are the result of a sick society as well as a lack of moral values which start in the home, not the fact that we have access to guns. Otherwise, why isn’t everyone with access to a gun shooting up everyone?

      • Wow, talk about limited in scope and geography…Did you chose this one because it made your point?

      • To be blunt- So what? All the stats in the world are completely irrelevant when somebody breaks into my home. They die.

  10. A terrible situation for the poor daughter, but the father took care of business. One thing: Don’t apologize. Ever. The surviving thug’s lawyer will use that in the civil suit.

  11. If they outlaw guns, then only the OUTLAWS will have guns to terrorize us. NOT A CHANCE with me. I’ll keep mine close to my side.

  12. The school shooting in Oregon was over in a little over a minute even though the shooter has 9 loaded magazines and obviously intended to do a lot more shooting. He was confronted by an armed school guard. The school shooter in Colorado recently only lasted 80 seconds after his first shot because he was confronted by an armed school guard.
    When good people have guns they can fight back against the real criminals.

  13. St. Louis police say a 17 year old girl was outside of her home
    getting something from a car when two armed men confronted her and
    demanded that she return to her home.

    The girl`s father saw the suspects walking his daughter toward the
    home. That`s when police say the teen`s father, a 34 year old man, got
    his gun and fired several shots at the suspects, hitting both of them.
    The girl`s mother, also 34, got another gun and fired a round as well,
    not hitting either suspect.

    WAY TO GO MOM!!!

    http://fox2now.com/2014/06/10/one-person-dead-another-at-the-hospital/

      • …and that would be a tragedy but 2 armed men confronting a woman in her own driveway and trying to get her to go back inside? No telling what they had planned for her had dad not been there and mom to back her up…

      • I’m not saying she was wrong, forcing her back inside sounds like attempted rape or home invasion. In any case it wasn’t a simple robbery. Those situations are touchy but I have to admit they handled themselves well.

      • “No telling what they had planned…..” Are you for real? You know exactly what they had planned, as do I, and every other person that read your statement!

      • Yea, I didn’t think it was necessary to throw in the grizzly details since pretty much everybody here can figure out what the next step would have been for 2 criminals alone in a house with 1 or 2 unarmed women.

      • I doubt that even in the hood little Timmy would be out on his trike at 11 pm. If someone is on a trike at that time of the night his name is probably Jamal and he’s stealing the trike.

      • Don’t confuse stupidity with honesty. Don’t be quick to label people racists until you see actual racist terms start flying. Social commentary is still legal in this country, as far as I remember.

      • I personally dont care what someone says about race. I care what they do. Human beings get angry and say mean/hurtful things. Decent human beings typically regret it when they say mean/hurtful things, but we all do it. Actions speak much, much louder than words.

      • Exactly. Doing so makes you automatically a racist. Unless, of course, you’re some young elite liberal snob with a “Gender Bias” major- in which case, you are free to talk about “white privilege” until the evil white man is cut down to size.

      • And why are we not mentioning race? I will! Blacks, !4% of the population committing 45% of the violent crime according to FBI Crime statistics “Crime by race 2012.” Why not state the obvious? The black culture is a violent culture, and society will only suffer by denying this fact. I see it almost every day in the Oakland/Richmond, CA area where they are out of control.

      • I don’t think bullets discriminate who they hit by color once they start flying. That being said, stick to the subject that was the whole point.

      • I love when bullets fly in the hood. They love taking their own kind out on a daily basis especially in the City of Brotherly Love!

      • It is good for me. When they chimp-out, it creates another void in the system that is usually filled all too quickly unfortunately.

      • Generally, the Black culture is a self-feeding monster. The songs, the lifestyle, the tardiness, etc, etc. All creates violence in their own communities, and the major reason I will NEVER give up my guns. Period.

      • Wait til they find out the US govt is BROKE and will not be electronically transferring money to their EBT card, all hell will break lose then. The stealing and killing will begin in earnest then, mark my word.

      • Maybe, but that being said, we (USA) really need to stop comparing our situation to England, Australia, Europe, etc. Simply put, those countries do not have the same cultural demographics. True.

      • Also why gun control cannot be compared to England and Australia, etc. They don’t have that “rap” culture, or the wave of illegals for that matter. Of course, saying this permanently makes you a “racist”. But these two reasons are why we can NEVER take guns away, because the criminals will still have them.

      • You have a lot to learn about “rap culture”. Its been worldwide for a while now. A lot going on on our planet. Drake one of biggest name is rap is Canadian.

      • And you fall for the black line of always sticking with them regardless if they are wrong or not. Look at this country now and how much people, hard working people have suffered because of the POS you put in the white house

      • He was being sarcastic that mom should not have fired because mom could not hit her target.

      • OK..where do you live Rafael X ??? I want to know, so that I can send two black men, with guns to take you hostage. I want you to feel the gun pressed to your head, as thoughts of rape, torture and even murder scream in your brain. I then want someone you love (and loves you, even though I dont think any exist) to come to your rescue, someone who might not be the top marksmen on the range, but someone that has some gun training. I then want you to tell them to – PUT THE GUN DOWN – Do you see yourself EVER doing that?? I don’t. If I am in that situation, or someone I love is (Or just another human being) I would want them to do whatever they COULD do to save me or to save them.
        So, waiting on your address!!!

      • For everytime a gun saves a life how many it takes senselessly? The father did the right thing the mom did not. You don’t know where a missed shot might end-up. Even hurting the very person you where trying to protect. Guns are not for everyone and it’s a fact. I live in the Southside of Chicago so I cross a lot of unsavory black men.

  14. Nice shooting Dad…I’m proud of you Happy Father’s Day with your daughter who’s still alive….because you knew how to shoot….one out of two dead aint bad

  15. One dead and the other wounded. That’s good work Dad! Too bad they didn’t both exit the world. I’m sure their momma’s will say they were good boys.

  16. Ok so if they want to confiscate guns lets do an experiment. Lets start in Chicago and take all the guns away in the highest crime areas first. Wait 2 months and if there is no more crime then move to another crime area. When all the gun crimes have ceased in these areas then move on to New York city and try it there.

  17. Why is the dad apologizing? Those punks got what they deserved, their families surely know it and should have done a better job raising them. End of story.

    • because he feels sorry for the family of the guy he had to kill. If I was ever in that situation I would feel the same way. I would have done what I had to do but I would feel bad for the guys family because no matter how bad he was he was still someones son, grandson, brother, nephew, father, etc. In other words I wouldn’t regret doing it nor would I feel sorry for the POS that I had to kill but I would feel bad for his family because they did nothing wrong (sometimes it has to do with upbringing and sometimes not).

  18. As I see it, he should be awarded a medal for the one he terminated the existence of and remedial shooting lessons for the one that lived.

  19. I vote him the father of the year !!!!! Good job, well done. !!!!! It is time we all take a stand to protect our families from these low life thugs.

  20. He used his weapon for its intended purpose, protection of life! He also showed a proper remorse for ending someone’s life, kudos to him for respecting the families of the fallen, though he was well within his rights to blame the parents for raising such punks, he understands they’re weren’t the ones holding the guns on his daughter! A responsible gun owner, and a great father!

    • No, his mistake was voicing any comment about the perpetrators at all. The correct response to the media should always be “I have no comment at this time”, then shut the heck up and leave the area. What he said is bound to bring law suit lawyers a running to the dead perpetrator’s relatives. Law suit is a coming now.

  21. Great shooting, something a father should never have to be faced with, however would you feel the same if the daughter was struck by his or the assailant’s bullet?

    The 2nd Amendment does not discriminate the use of a firearm, for good or otherwise. Perhaps you should ask, if guns were not as readily available to the public would this or any other gun related violence readily occur?

    I hope that mass shootings has not crept into Americans mental psyche as an acceptable fact. Is the 2nd Amendment worth the price of innocent men, women and children’s lives. When is enough? I believe those words have been lost in translation.

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    • no matter what they do the black market will always have guns… so if you cut back on the honest ownership of guns then the bad guys with guns far outnumber the good guys. We know how well the “war on drugs” has worked and a “war on guns” would be no different.

  22. How is it that “Cortez McClinton was charged with first-degree murder in the 2010 killing of Brian Reed” was not either locked up or DEAD for committing MURDER?

  23. That’s the best example of gun control I’ve seen in some time. I’m glad that you were able to exercise your right to protect your family.

    • An armed populace is a polite populace. Only thing that stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

      • People do not worship guns. Guns are tools, much like chainsaws. If you tried to register or confiscate my chainsaw I’d be fighting back as well. You are anti-gun. Which is a very strange concept for me. I will never understand people’s insane fear of one of my many tools.

      • You reslly need to stop replying to posts, you sound really dumb. Who in there right mind worships guns? Although worshipping hainsaws dosen’t sound that bad, it’s a thought!!! 🙂

      • Rafael X is the most cogent, concise, objective and logical poster I have read here! I was going to go to bed after a real half-mad day (any ParrotHeads out there?), but your bullying, ignorant and intolerant post pushed me over the top! First, I am going to “warn” everybody. I am a registered Libertarian. Now, the vast majority of you will probably stop reading now. Too afraid, rigid, or close minded to even consider an opposing view. But if you read on, you will realize what I am about to post goes against the Libertarian platform. In fact, I am looking into anarchism. Look it up.

        I have no problem with private citizens owning hand guns or long barreled sporting weapons. I do, however, draw the line at high capacity magazines and assault weapons. If someone can’t bring down a target with 9 rounds (8 in the clip and 1 in the pipe), they have no business carrying a weapon. I qualified EXPERT the first time I fired a .38. Assault weapons? They have only one purpose, else why the name? and no private citizen has a need for an automatic, let alone semi-automatic assault weapon. and don’t argue that they are, “hunting” weapons. Unless you want to turn your target.into hamburger. Oh, yeah. The first time I went trap shooting, I scored 25/25 and 24/25. I know a thing or two about handling hand guns and sporting guns.

        Want to make it harder to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill (BTW, I am a retired behavioral health professional), instead of keeping confiscated weapons in evidence lockers after sentence has been handed down, gee, they seem to disappear rapidly, melt them down into man-hole covers. Intensive back-round checks. Longer waiting periods. Keep the dangerously mentally ill committed. Throw violent criminals in the “hole.” Release non-violent prisoners to well supervised half-way houses. I know they exist. I managed one. In crease drug courts. They work. I know. I have been involved with drug courts. don’t sit back in your barca-loungers and play the victim complaining about the state of the country. Stand up and do something! when was the last time any of you “concerned citizens” made a phone call, wrote a letter to your Senators, Congressman, local officials, school board, or attended a “town meeting” to express you displeasure with YOUR elected employees?

        Don’t complain like victims. “We the people…,” gave away our, “Government of, the people, by the and for the people.” WE, “We the people…,” elected these idiot, self-self-interested, “representatives,” into office! Therefore, it is the responsibility of, “We the people…,” to take back our government. I love my country, but fear my government. You?

        Then DO something about it. At least sign up for you Senators’ and Congressman’s news letters. subscribe to, “GovTrack.us. See, daily how your Senators and Congressman are voting. Write them. Call them. Exercise you voice where it counts!

        And for you accused, “libs” like me out there, I have a “Modest Proposal,” if anyone out there doesn’t get the reference, look up, Johnathan Swift. Join the NRA. Like me. Become a member of the “loyal opposition.” Eventually we will hold the majority vote. It’s called “termiting.” Just think what we could do, THEN! Grist for the mill.

        I’m going to bed!

      • Your inflated opinions of your own perceived importance and the accompanying self-aggrandizing aren’t worth reading the book you just wrote. An abridged version is much more appropriate in public forums…without the ego.

      • I think it’s the other way around. You don’t seem to be able to handle civil debate. Reduce the argument to the lowest common denominator. Judgmental and insulting. And drop the emoticon.

      • Well, GoneFishing, I can’t find you exact post, but you essentially accused me of not knowing how to cut-and-paste links. I actually do. Also made a conscious decision not to put in hot links. Figured people could do their own. Guess I was wrong. So, I’ll help you out:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=Allen+B+West+(U.S.+Army+officer)&fulltext=Search

        http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=Rupert+Murdoch&fulltext=Search

        http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=Fox+News+Channel&fulltext=Search

        However, I do not expect you to look at them. It appears we agree on one thing. We each believe the other gets his news from unreliable sources. Then again, agreement on something, is an up-side. Maybe we can engage in civil debate instead of insults and name-calling, eh? Up to it?

      • Just an observation; Wikipedia describes itself thus, “Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles…”. Wikipedia is hardly a reliable or objective source.

      • I know that. I’m not referring to the content. I verify the sources. Cyber and hard copy. Now we may disagree on the scources, which we probably do, but I ignore unsourced material. It’says called research.

      • It deserves to be pointed out that, regardless of so called ‘research’, every source you’ve named is decidedly left-leaning. So I repeat, we know were you get your Kool-Aid from.

      • Just like concrete all mixed up with stones and cemented shut. I was raised to believe that Democracy was all about the free and civil exchange of ideas. What, am I note afforded civility for my posts on this thread?

    • Hello fellow Democrat. (Yes, I’m one. I cruise conservative sites because real ideas percolate here.) Sophistry may work at the party hoe-downs, but I’ve found that when you arrive at a conservative-oriented site, you really need to traffic in actual ideas. (I know. Takes your breath away. So hard!)

    • No… that is YOUR nanny state mentality. Believe what the slave owners tell you and want you to believe. You just revealed your IQ. Constitutional Conservatives is who won freedom for all peoples in America. Know your history. Harriette Tubman was a runaway slave who formed the “underground railroad”. One of her famous quotes was; “I’ve led a thousand slaves to freedom and I would have led a thousand more, if only they knew they were slaves”.
      Do you even know who Harriette Tubman is (was)? We just had black history month and the only “accomplished” blacks I read about were ppl like Oprah Winfrey, Moochell Odummeschit” and Serena Williams. Celebrity types, a dictators sponge wife and an athlete.
      PATHETIC!

      • Apparently you have no understanding of what det wrote, you would do yourself a favor an not react to posts you do not get! makes you look really stupid.

      • Rafael X, apparently you need a history lesson. The first gun control laws in this country were right after the civil war (1870) and their purpose was to take guns out of the hands of African Americans so the KKK could abuse, beat, and murder them with impunity.

        And the 20th century wasn’t much better. The gun control laws in the 1960s were designed to take guns out of the hands of blacks who had formed armed neighborhood watches to keep corrupt cops from abusing, beating, and murdering them for “being on the wrong side of town” as they walked home from work. Google “Deacons for Self Defense” and “The Black Panther Party for Self Defense.” 🙂

      • I’m not for confiscating guns from law-abiding citizens. But it’s easier to get a gun then it is to vote in this country. Almost one mass shooting per week. There has to be a way to deal with this that makes everyone happy.

      • “But it’s easier to get a gun then [sic] it is to vote in this country.”

        Remember that time you went to vote and had to show ID and fill out a form and wait a few days while a background check was done? … Neither do I.

      • Have you ever researched the various State’s voter registration laws? Here in Illinois, it is easier to get a FOID card than it is to get a library card, let alone register as a voter. Furthermore, my wife and I do not participate in Illinois primary elections. we are forced to publicly announce our party affiliation. A clear violation violation of, “…secret ballot…” You “people” who present your broad generalizations as, “fact,” make me sick. don’t you know better than to advertise your ignorance? Or do you just fall into lock-step with, Allen, Lt. (“Telephone”) Col. West? Chew on this:

        Sontag, Deborah; Fisher, Ian (May 27, 2004).”The
        Struggle For Iraq: Interrogations; How Colonel Risked His Career By Menacing Detainee and Lost”.The
        New York Times.

        “The Struggle for Iraq: How Colonel Risked His Career By Menacing Detainee and Lost”.nytimes.com. M”U.S.
        Officer Fined for Harsh Interrogation Tactics”ay
        27, 2004

        And do you revere Rupert Murdoch? Chew on this:

        “Murdochs, Brooks, Police testify in phone-hacking scandal”.CNN. 19 July 2011.

        Lyall, Sarah (19 July 2011).”Murdochs
        Say Top Executives Didn’t Know of Phone Hacking”.The
        New York Times.

        “Rupert Murdoch ‘sorry’ in newspaper adverts”.
        BBC News

        “Wall Street Journal publisher resigns”.
        Heraldtribune.com

        “Phone hacking: ‘Humbled’ Murdoch rejects blame”.
        BBC News. 27 February 2012

        “Rupert Murdoch ‘not a fit person’ to lead News Corp – MPs”.BBC News

        “Transcript: Rupert Murdoch recorded at meeting with Sun staff”.Exaro. 3 July 2013.

        “Revealed: The Rupert Murdoch tape”.Channel 4 News.
        3 July 2013

        Leaked Fox News Memo Reveals News Division Told To Echo GOP Talking Point, Business Insider, December 9, 2010

        How about “Foux News?”

        Leaked Fox News Memo Reveals News Division Told To Echo GOP Talking Point, Business Insider, December 9, 2010

        “Fox News Viewed as Most Ideological Network”.
        People-press.org. October 29, 2009.

        “The Fox News Effect: Media Bias and Voting”, Quarterly
        Journal of Economics, August 2007, Vol. 122, No. 3, Pages 1187–1234

        Weiner, Rachel (October 20, 2009).”The Ten Most Egregious Fox News Distortions”. The Huffington Post.

        D.C.P. (November 11, 2009). “Hannity video switch-up is only the tip of Fox News’ video-doctoring iceberg”. Media Matters for America.

        Simon Maloy (December 8, 2009). “Fox News fiddles with climate change polling”. Media Matters for America.

        Fox News again accused of airing misleading video

        FoxNews (November 19, 2009).”For That We Apologize”.

        Burkeman, Oliver.”Fox News apologises for Kerry abrication.”The Guardian, October 4, 2004.

        Times Staff Writer (October 2, 2004).”Fox Posts Reporter’s Kerry Spoof on Website”.

        Or do you just swallow the Kool-Aid? Ever do any research or investigating for YOURSELF?

      • A whole lotta’ copy-and-pasting going on there. Aside from biased Liberal outlets (when named), headlines don’t mean much. At least we know were you get your Kool-Aid from.

      • At least I cite my posts. More than can be said of the the idiot generalizers. Or is a little research too much work for you?

      • Considering your sources…oh dear.
        Speaking of idiot generalizing, kindly point to anything I’ve posted to you that needed research. Nothing? Oops! That must mean you’re generalizing me with others who’ve responded to you. Good conversation comes only to those who pay attention to whom they’re conversing with.

      • Did I confront you directly? I honestly don’t know. I should be in bed. I was posting about people who were making claims with no historical merit or citation. Nikita’s alleged comment about not attacking the US. Ymamoto’s unsubstantiated comment. That tripe about gun control in the 1870’same to prevent ex-slaves from owning. I’m history major working on an MA in Military History. I will not let unsubstantiated, unsupported historical claims pass without confrontation. Got a problem with that? Or should we just let people post false historical statements?

      • Did you actually cite Media matters and The Huffington Post? Oh please. Why didn’t you just cite, “The Cat in the Hat”?

      • Yea, and if you look at the medical history you will also notice that over 90% of these idiot are on psychotropic drugs….. We don’s have a gun problem, we have a big pharma profit problem.

      • It is not easier to legally get a gun than to vote… and in New York, Illinois and other states, there is a ton of paperwork to fill out..vs the one form to register to vote… and maybe you will be allowed to use your 2nd Amendment right in those states.

      • Hyperbole will not solve the problem. It is certainly NOT easier to get a gun (legally) than it is to vote. In order to legally buy a gun you must show ID, fill out a long form where you will be asked many many questions, sign under penalty of perjury then undergo an FBI backgound check.

        In most states, not only don’t you have to show and ID, in several states it is ILLEGAL to ask proof of citizenship prior to registering to vote.

        The problem is not with legally purchased guns (of any sort). The problem is with the black market guns in the hands of criminals, and, so far, NONE of the proposed laws do anything to stop or even slow down the movement of guns into the hands of criminals. All present laws do is remove guns from the hands of law abiding citizens and make it much harder for a law abiding citizen to purchase a firearm.

        In fact, many state legislatures voted down the “use a gun, go to prison” laws that sent a person to prison for a mandated 10 years for using a gun in the commission of a crime.

        And even the states that passed such legislation still lets the felon out in 5 years or less to go right back to his life of crime.

        We don’t have a gun problem in this country. We have a crime problem (along with a mental health care problem)! Let’s fix the problem and leave the law abiding citizens alone. 🙂

      • I’ll be back tomorrow. I still want some evidence of when and where you served. As a USAF B52 VN Era vet, I have, unfortunately, discovered that there are many people who falsely pass themselves as vets. One terrible December night over Hanoi, I lost half of my crew mates and missed becoming a “guest” of the Hanoi Hilton by 15 minutes. I will gladly share my DD-214 with you, my list of ribbons and medals awarded and pics of me on Guam. One condition. We exchange emails. Up to it, “Vet?”

      • “…look really stupid…?” Get the poster’s user name right at least! “dct,” NOT, “det! And dct’s post has nothing to do with this thread! 😉

      • Actually it didn’t. Hell the current Vice President of the United States was recently screaming to a black audience that the Conservatives wanted to put them back in chains? Slavery is brought up whenever it is convenient for the Libs.

      • Political bullshite. Makes me no never mind. It is a waste of your and our time to even post it!

      • Therefore, you admit to us that you did not do your own independent research. Let alone challenge what was missing in what you were taught? Kool-Aid drinker! IF you are old enough to catch the reference…

      • I gave you the TRUTH along with some HISTORY but YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH. And OBVIOUSLY YOU DONT KNOW HISTORY either. dct is a random name but ppl of low IQ such as yourself try to make something of nothing.

    • Really? and your liberatard logic, if we ban guns no one will have them?? If we ban cars no one will be killed, ban knives, bats, hammers, etc and we will have world peace? you are such a moron.

      • No, “moron!” You rabid gun advocate blow-hards always resort to hyperbole. You and the NRA use the 2nd Amendment to defend your belief in the right of private citizens to own fire-arms, no matter their destructive power. But, THAT DOG WON’T HUNT! You always conveniently forget, or worse yet, ignore the first clause: “A WELL regulated militia (;i.e., National Guard),being necessary…” While I applaud this father for his actions, can you tell us what, “..well regulated militia…,” to which he belonged?

      • Jay, you need to go back to the beginning and do a little research yourself. We don’t have the right to keep and bear arms because the Bill of Rights says so; rather, the Bill of Rights says so because the right to keep and bear arms is intrinsic to our very being: it is a right with which we were endowed by our Creator. However, just to show you can be wrong on 2 fronts…Florida Statute 250.02 Militia.—(1) The militia consists of all able-bodied citizens of this state and all other able-bodied persons who have declared their intention to become citizens.
        So here in Fl we all belong!

      • Sorry. That’s not what it says in the 2nd Amendment. It says nothing about a right bequeathed us by “…our Creator…” You are referring to the Declaration of Independence. That IS NOT the Constitution!

      • I think I already responded. However, if my reply didn’t post, I’ll re-post. Nowhere in the 2nd Amendment does it refer to gun ownership being, “…endowed by our Creator.” Creator endowment is in the Declaration of Independence. NOT the Constitution. Better re-research yourself.

        BTW, Beach Bum, you a ParrotHead by any chance?

    • Wow! Why didn’t I think of that? You know what we ought to do? We ought to ban drugs. That would stop it. We also ought to ban drunk driving. Put a stop to it! Great idea. Remember prohibition? It stopped anyone in the whole country from drinking. Not a drop was drunk from 1919 through 1931. Yeah! That’ll work!

      • Vet? Where and when did you serve? Of course, In order to believe you, might you post your DD-214 and documentation from the National Military Records Center?

      • Are you willing to post your personal particulars in a public forum, you know, the kind of information data thieves are salivating to get their hands on? Especially since I don’t know you, I wouldn’t trust you with that information, either.

      • Yes I am! I have nothing to hide. That’s why I post under my real name, rather than hide behind some phoney user name. NBA and HIS are collecting all of this anyway. Why not stand up and take a personal position. I risked my life for this country. In a war based on a lie. They know where to find me. What’s your excuse?

      • That’s your beer if you don’t care how your personal info is used by others. Most people rightly do care. I’ll have you know that you’re not the only one here who’s served and no one is disparaging the fact that you have. I too served, and that’s as detailed as I’m gonna’ let you in on, but I don’t need any excuses.

      • Did I offer any excuses? “They” know already. Worried about the posters? Redacted the personal information. SSN, etc. Units, duty stations, MOS, citations? Hell, I’ll even post pics. Done it before. What’s to hide? No consequences I’experienced.

      • You may not give a hoot about identity theft, just don’t be surprised that predominantly no one else is willing to compromise their personal I.D.

      • I wrote, redacted personal information. SSN, current contact information, etc. It can be done…securely. Nothing is safe on the Web anyway.

      • …so it blows your demand of proof right out of the water. As they say, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

  24. I cannot verify this, but read years ago that when Kruschiev was asked about invading the U.S., he replied that it should not be attempted because because too many of its citizens owned firearms at home. Something to think about.

    • It was Japanese Imperial Navy Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. He said, to paraphrase, that there’d be an American with a rifle behind every brade of glass, I mean blade of grass…

      • Give the citation, please! Had there been an invasion of Japan, neither me, my wife nor our son would be here. Both of our fathers were scheduled to be in the FIRST invasion wave of Japan. Do a little simple research, lest you advertise your ignorance! After Pearl Harbor, Yamamoto said, “I fear we have wakened a sleeping giant.” Furthermore “Should hostilities once break out between Japan and the United States, it would not be enough that we take Guam and the Philippines, nor even Hawaii and San Francisco. To make victory certain, we would have to march into Washington and dictate the terms of peace in the White House. I wonder if our politicians (who speak so lightly of a Japanese-American war) have confidence as to the final outcome and are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices.[12]

        Chew on that!

    • If you can’t verify it, don’t post it. Clearly you did not grow up during the Cold War. Kruschiev [sic] (Khrushchev), at least demonstrate the intelligence to use a dictionary. I think there are a “few” available on the web. Khrushchev would have had no reason to invade the US. We both had enough MISSILES to obliterate the world, let alone each other. Doubt me? Read or watch, “On The Beach.” Guess you missed the whole, “Bomb Shelter Industry,” and never suffered through the inane, “duck-and-cover” drills in school!

  25. when will we learned that nothing in this country is perfect, government, state, or city laws all have there pro’s and con’s. the man did what any father would have done, it’s not a political action, it was an action to protect his daughter, far as i know there are no law that are trying to take away peoples gun’s, but there is a need to watch who buy’s them, and that in it self is a big order. i think we all can agree that we don’t want mentally ill people with weapons that i know for sure. and we differently don’t want them in the hands of non-law abiding people. just like shoes, clothes,and any other thing people should be able to but what they want and how many they want, when they want. but just keep them away from kids, and schools damm that’s not much to ask. Great story

    • I have heard it from politicians mouths that their goal is to disarm the American People! Including Obama himself has said, “citizens should not own handguns” before he ran for president! It is happening state by state. Picking and choosing what we can and cannot own any longer! “Shall Not Be Infringed”

    • Yes, it is TOO much to ask. Kids are safer during summer break, than when they are in school. Or haven’t you been paying attention the past couple of days? 1.37 school shootings a week!

  26. why in the hell did he apologize? I would have told them sorry about your bad luck, but your thug ass sons deserved what they got.

      • Did anyone ever accuse you of not knowing how to use copy-and-paste? Geesh, you’re like a broken record.

      • Get over it. If that is the best retort you can come up with, get a life. I don’t do the heavy lifting for other people. If you can’t find the references, learn how to search. At least I posted sources when so many others didn’t. I am not asking you to believe them, God forbid. At least I backed up my opinions. Or, doesn’t that count for anything? No, in your mind I expect it doesn’t. For more seems to be more important than content to you. Makes me no never mind.

      • Wouldn’t trust my records? Must be rough going through life that cynical. Did you know cynicism shortens life-span? I’ll post mine if you agree to post yours.

      • Yes. If you read my post, I have been involved in killing civilians from 37, 000 feet. And don’t you DARE think that makes a bit of difference. Try reading Stud Turkel’s, ” The ‘Good’War” if you think it makes a difference. Better yet, read, “Flying The Line? Ever face hostile fire? No place to hide at 37,000’. Just me and the gunner responsible for defense of our aircraft! If you read all my posts on this thread, your question is insulting to all of us who served in a war based on a lie. Ever placed you self in harms way?

      • You sound like you might have taken some shrapnel to your head. I have the visible scars to prove my involvement…..which is NONE of your business….

      • Saved you until last, Brother. See, this ol’ barnacle brain of mine couldn’t figure out what you meant by, “video games.” Then it hit me. You think I was one of those guys in the B52’s that flew missions in SW Asia. Oooops. Wrong. We are in agreement that those crews flew milk-run, video game bombing missions.

        Thing is, HLH, I was referring to an air operation much farther back in time. The crews on those planes didn’t have to face salvos of SAM’s and a carpet of AA. I’m referring to Operation Linebacker II. I’ll sum it up, and leave you a link if you are more interested in learning what it was like then.

        Linebacker II – December 18 – 28, 1972. X-Mas excluded of course. 15 B52’s downed. 6 other AF planes downed. 5 Navy aircraft downed. 33 B52 crew members KIA or MIA. 33 B52 crewmen POW’s. Guests of the Hanoi Hilton. 26 B52 crew members rescued. I missed being a guest by 15 minutes. Doesn’t sound like a video game to me.

        Lost my gunner, pilot and co-pilot. Which night I keep to myself. That’s just for my family and I. But I will share this. I cry for my crew mates every Memorial Day, Veterans’ Day and that terrible December night over Hanoi.

        If you look over the Air Order of Battle, you will notice no aircraft of any kind were lost. There is a reason for that. The NVA got word that the geniuses planning the operation had us flying the same tracks for three nights in a row. Not a single air defense weapon was fired on the night of the 19th. But we did have, “company.” Migs were flying off our wings gathering air speed, altitude and heading data.

        We came back and during debriefing reported what we saw visually and radar. The, “intelligence officers,” a contradiction in terms much like the CIA, all but told us we were crazy.

        December 20, the worst night of losses. I later ran into a navigator friend of mine from another crew. He told me, as he reached up to dial the target coordinates into the targeting computer…the coordinates were ALREADY dialed in! His plane had flown the very same mission the night before. Care to imagine what went through his mind and the rest of his crew mates?

        If you read into the article a little deeper, you will learn that whole operation was not necessary. Air Force investigation reached that finding. It was dreamed up by Kissinger and his wonder boy, Bob McNamara, the genius who developed that wonder car, the Ford Falcon.

        That makes us Brothers in arms, to. We both put our lives in harms way in wars that were based on lies. Played as pawns in political gambits.

        Now, HLH, in your assumption, you managed to insult those B52 , other Air Force crew men and Naval Aviators who gave their all. Your fellow Brothers who came before you. On whose shoulders you stood. Good luck squaring that with their spirits.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Linebacker_II

        Happy reading, Brother…Never, never assume…

      • I don’t assume, but according to a friend of mine who flies A-10s that anything above medium ceilings, 15,000 or higher at longer slant ranges severely complicated bombing accuracy, particularly against targets that required essentially a direct hit to be destroyed, such as hangars, bunkers, tanks, and artillery. So, if someone bombed from 37,000 feet, about 7 miles I would find that difficult to find valid. I have utmost respect for those who gave all and I too have served in combat so I show no disrespect to any soldier or veteran.

      • Precision bombing in Vietnam was done from 19K – 20K. We could drop them within 500 yd of our troops. Ask any boonie stomper. Carpet bombing, as we did over Hanoi-Haiphong, was from 35 K – 37 K. Was supposed to give us an altitude advantage over NVA air defenses. THAT worked “real” well. Operational altitude is above 50 K. Actual is still classified. Remember it was designed for delivering nuclear weapons. We also practiced low level approach and delivery at 500′. Now, THAT was a bumpy ride!

  27. I don’t think the father said he was “sorry”. I have heard that paraphrase several times in the media. He said, “my CONDOLENCES goes out to….” “to the moms, fathers and OTHER PEOPLE INVOLVED, I apologize”. Saying “I’m sorry” has the suggestion of some sort of guilt. You can feel bad for the family members that will miss the thug you killed. You can have empathy for them. Remorse is not the same thing at all. Any reasonable sane person would wish it didn’t happen. Most reasonable people don’t live in fairytale land and believe that just because you don’t want bad things to happen doesn’t mean that two guys who just got out of jail won’t come knocking. Prudent
    people will be prepared. Unprepared people will be victims

      • Would you like to see the ex-cons raping your wife and daughters and maybe you? Then rob and kill you? The police can not be there like the Lone Ranger and Tonto coming around the corner to save you before you get harmed.

      • Jeez! Did you even read my post? I never wrote anything of the kind. All I was pointing out, was that it is not as easy to take the life of a human being as easily as so many here seem to think it is. That father’s soul and life will be forever changed. I’m not passing judgment as you seem to imply. I am stating a fact learned from many of the people with whom I have worked. Don’t believe me? Makes me no never mind.

  28. It’s better to be sorry afterward and live than to face who knows what if the criminals weren’t dead. I don’t want to imagine what the newstory would have turned out to be

  29. NEVER apologize in a statement to police or the media. An overzealous gun-hating prosecutor will use those words and twist them to a jury that your guilty feelings mean that you know you could have done something else…
    Good shooting, Dad

    • Nope. In MO we love guns. Also, he apologized because he is probably a church going man. Not many can shoot and feel proud about it. I am glad he shot them but am worried about retaliation.

      • Too many people in Florida have been prosecuted by these over-zealous “Conviction at any cost” DA’s… It’s one of the reasons “Stand Ones Ground” was passed by the Florida Legislation. I carry a laminated checklist card ( right with my CCW Permit ) from a 2nd.Amendment Lawyer “on-call” for self defense shootings. #2 on that card, after calling 911, is make NO Statement to Police without a lawyer present, request transport to a hospital for Shock / Trauma.
        I trust his judgement over yours.

      • My judgment? I would have shot them also lol. That area of STL I have been in, the retaliation is real though. He did the right thing. MO just passed legislation to nullify federal gun laws, of which all I agree with. So if by my judgement you agree with gun laws then I would hope that you trust my judgment. I have defended myself in self defense several times KC, Memphis and STL… No questions asked.

      • I would have shot them too…. but I wouldn’t do any apologizing to Police or anyone else until I was absolutely certain the Shooting was Officially ” Justified “… that’s all I’m saying… Look what happened to Zimmerman here, because he thought the Police were his “friends”… He immediately began giving statements to police and interviewed by numerous detectives, volunteered to do a re-enactment… all without a lawyer… every single slight discrepancy between the different statements and interviews nearly put him in prison for 30 years…. Good discussion…

      • Well. It’s best to give statements on what actually happened. I defend, I call 911, I give detail and walk through. Trust it’s better for the cops to be able to immediately agree that it was self defense.

        Example: I was fresh out of BCT (2003) and was about to head to Jefferson City (Lincoln University) from Memphis. I got lost in South Memphis on my way home from the airport. I stopped to get something to eat at a corner store (I was stupid for doing this in S. Memphis…). I was jumped by some bloods(South Memphis Territory before expansion), managed to severely 2… Police came, I told them what actually happened and did a walk through. I have worked Corrections, Mental Health and P & P. I will say that where people go wrong is NOT being honest. I have seen many times where if a person is reporting and you can see holes in what they are saying… Then the situation may have been erroneous, so further investigation must be pursued.

      • I live in Florida. I heavily researched what to do in Florida… I will tell Police ” I will talk to you but first I need to go to the hospital”…It’s much better waiting for the lawyer to arrive in a hospital than in a police station….

  30. For everyone hung up on his apology. He was sorry the families had to go through their grief period. He wishes he had another choice. I don’t think he has a deep down regret for having acted to protect his family. I think he would do it again in a heartbeat.

  31. I’m glad this dad did what was necessary to save his daughter. I would think anyone would do the same in the same situation.

    • As am I. but what help is he going to get having taken a human life. All these gun advocate blow-hards think it so easy to take a human life. Clearly they have never done so. Taking a human life leaves a scar on your soul…forever! No matter the conditions. Else why do all law enforcement agencies, at all levels, require the officer to surrender his/her weapon and undergo a psychiatric evaluation? Not to decide if it was a good shoot. that is the responsibility of IAB. The evaluation is to determine if he or she will hesitate in a similar situation, or, worse yet, eat a bullet over the guilt of taking a human life.

      Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Only I had the “luxury” of doing it from 37,000 feet…

      • Having your family brutalized will leave a deeper scar.

        Interesting that you characterize those who believe in the individual right to be armed to protect your own life, the life of your family, neighbor, etc. as “blowhards.”

      • Read my post again. I never wrote that. I was confronting those who made it sound like taking a human life, any human life was so easy. And as a retired behavioral health professional, I am acutely aware of the pain and guilt in doing nothing. My bad for leaving that out.

      • I don’t know what I got wrong. You did use the term “blowhards” indiscriminately. Similarly, I commented on what you acknowledge you “left out.”

        However, your clarification and addition helps. Thanks

      • I stand by my post, USMC 64-68. They lack any understanding of what it means to take a human being’s life. As a veteran of, “The Corps,” would think you would understand that. And thank you for your service. You may not believe me, but I mean it sincerely.

      • I understand that point very well, and that’s not what I initially objected to. At any rate, it’s no biggie.

        I have no reason to disbelieve you Jay. I appreciate it. Have a good weekend.

      • Jay – Gun advocates do not think it is easy to take a human life. Yes, some gun advocates are blow-hards. Some gun-control people are blowhards too. (They are in all facets of life!)
        I hope I speak for many gun advocates here, but we hope that we never are in a situation where we have to make that decision to pull that trigger. We know that even if it means saving our own life, pulling that trigger will change our lives in a negative way. We’ll second-guess it, others will second guess it. We’ll be scarred for life.
        Yet, as lousy as that is, we believe that it is still better to be prepared and protected, than to be defenseless against criminals.

      • I could’do agree more. I was confronting those fools who reflected in their posts that taking a human life, any life was so easy.

      • I was out at a movie with my two grand kids and i was thinking what if some fool came in and started shooting…wish I had my piece…legal or not.

    • Yeah? He gets released while non-violent and mandatory sentenced petty theft criminals get life sentences. Good question. Why don’t you write the PTB in Missouri that let this happen?

  32. Well said as usual Lt. Col. Allen West Retired! I also congratulate the Father for a job well done in a time of need! God made this possible by having the Dad visiting as he knew the need for his presence would be iminent and necessary! Just imagine what could have happened had Dad not been on site! He very well may have lost his Daughter and his Exwife apparently!

    • Thank you Travis. That’s exactly what I meant. However, delrayman, I have no problem with hand guns or long barreled sporting weapons. Use them often. Proficient, too. If it matters to you…

  33. so I GUESS IRST DEGREE ROBBERY IS A NEW WORD FOR ARMED ROBBERY AND HE GETS 16 YEARS AND THE OTHER CHARGE WITH MURDER IN 2010 IS OUT IN A FEW YEARS OR HAS NEVER BEEN IN JAIL SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE BUT GLAD TO HEAR THAT THEY WERE STOPPED

  34. Stories like this will make the bad guys think twice about crime. Our society is way too liberal on punishment. Also would bet these guys grew up without responsible fathers and parents…okay, I’m being judgmental but the lack of family is proven to be a big reason for kids going bad.

  35. I’m Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack! Wow, nearly 20 responses! Must have stirred up “something,” eh? Well, I will respond to everyone using Air Force protocol: “Last in, first out”; i.e., I’ll start with the oldest posts and work my way up. I’ll endeavour to keep things brief. I have a cold beer, a deck and Jimmy Buffett calling my name.

    However (there is always a “but”), many of you have questioned my veteran status and USAF service record. Without knowing a thing about me, I might add. So, here is my offer. I’ll post my DD-214, ribbons and medals awarded record and even my resume on PinTrest of FB; sensitive personal data redacted of course. The important military information WILL be available. I don’t see what the problem would be for any takers. After all, Our, “Government of the people, by the people and for the people,” is collecting all of this stuff anyway! So let me know. eh?

    Second, many of you are probably wondering why I post here. Four reasons:
    1) It helps me hone my writing skills.
    2) Carl Jung wrote something to the effect, that it was a good idea to explore those things, people and beliefs with which you disagree. You just might learn something. (No. I won’t cite the source. Citations don’t seem to valued much on this blog. I will, however, suggest, if you are so disposed, Use your favorite search engine and look up, Carl Jung quotes. Scroll through them. Like me, you just might learn something new.)
    3) I don’t suffer fools lightly. I confront personal disparagement, bullying, name calling, throwing stones, passing judgment, et. al. in the real world AND in the cyber world.
    4) It’s fun!

    So. Let the games begin!

    • What are you blabbering about? Never mind. Forget I asked. I really have no need to know and I really don’t want to know either. I also have a cold one calling my name.

      • “Guest?” Not even an avatar? Well, I feel a personal responsibility and obligation, out of courtesy, to reply to those who have taken their time to reply to me and ask questions of me. It’s the decent thing to do…

  36. Instant Justice
    It is never easy to take a life but, when you are not given a choice, you have a duty to protect your family.
    Oorah, Pops.
    Happy Fathers Day.

  37. pepjrp,

    I couldn’t find you. So, I resorted to this. Well, the up-side of this is that we both agree that each of us gets our news from unreliable sources. That IS a place to start, eh?

    Did you actually cite Media matters and The Huffington Post? Oh please. Why didn’t you just cite, “The Cat in the Hat”?

  38. GoneFishing,

    “That’s your beer if you don’t care how your personal info is used by others. Most people rightly do care. I’ll have you know that you’re not the only one here who’s served and no one is disparaging the fact that you have. I too served, and that’s as detailed as I’m gonna’ let you in on, but I don’t need any excuses.”

    What excuses?

  39. Jericho40,

    I didn’t imply this. You inferred it!

    “Would you like to see the ex-cons raping your wife and daughters and maybe you? Then rob and kill you? The police can not be there like the Lone Ranger and Tonto coming around the corner to save you before you get harmed.”

  40. tiredofworkingtoo
    “rather their life then mine or my family. I will live with my conscience knowing that one less person will be hurting someone else and I’m not supporting them by feeding and housing them in prison where they get better care then the hard working person. Kill the rats”
    Always an easy intellectual exercise. It ain’t that easy. Of course you clearly won’t believe me. Ask someone who has had to make that decision.

  41. Paul Horning
    “You sound like you might have taken some shrapnel to your head. I have the visible scars to prove my involvement…..which is NONE of your business…”
    And I have the scars in my soul and my spirit. Throw in a little, “survivors guilt,” Stir it up, does that make my scars any less than yours. I lost my gunner, pilot and co-pilot one terrible night over Hanoi. December 1972! I have finally accepted that I was spared in order to keep their memories alive. If you think I am judging you…don’t judge me. Fair enough?

  42. My BCT DI, an E-6 Black man from Alabama, told me in Basic, “Abe Lincoln made all men free, but Samuel Colt made all men equal.”

    That father’s life has changed. It shouldn’t have to happen, but thank the Merciful Lord that Father was there and did the right thing. Still, his life has changed because of having taken life, and that’s another uncounted burden placed on the law-abiding by the criminal.

    Gather your feet under you, Colonel, and make your run! HHHOOOAAAHHH!!!

  43. Criminals are comparative to people who are afraid of diving into water. At first one may be scared to dive into deep water, the more it is practiced the more easy it becomes and fear subsides. The more crimes a criminal commits the deeper they go with fear and respect for others diminishing and give them and a feeling of superiority.and thrill of Power. POOR decisions and lack of fear promote Criminals to a greater sense of being capable of perpetuating more dangerous and evil crimes.

  44. Yup. That’s STL for you! I NEVER go there without being armed! Some cities you have to carry in. Dudes will shoot you there without question or warning.

  45. I’m sorry, but these stories always have to be politicized…the Repubs have brainwashed people into thinking the Dems are going to take their gun rights away. Unfortunately we don’t keep weapons out of the hands of “thugs” and “mentally ill people” who walk into public places & murder innocent children. Until there is common ground by the two parties this will keep happening in this the most violent nation in the world!

    • If the Democrats do not want our guns, why did they give a 100% vote to disarm America at the UN convention, BTW that vote was defeated by 47 to 54 Republicans. The Democrats are currently voting to repeal the 1st amendment. Brainwashing, really, common core, common knowledge, the Democrats will always spew false hoods, change and rewrite history ! Most VIOLENT NATION, open your foolish eyes, take a look around, take a look at IRAQ, SYRIA, your DEMOCRAT administration wants to disarm us, all the while arming terrorists, and drug cartels with heavy weapons….

  46. It’s not brainwashing if it’s true. BTW I agree with the rest of your comment. The GOP mostly supports the 2d amendment totally, because compromise with the other side just helps their ‘incremental’ modus operandum.

  47. Of course these scum will be memorialized and some kind of goofy vigil held for them with friends and family claiming they were “good boys”.

  48. A gun has never once saved a life. If (Person A) kills (Person B) in self defense and (person B) was attempting to shoot or kill them, then 1 man is dead when it started with two men (-1 due to a gun). Now (person B) may have been attacking more then one person and succeeds (person A +1 other dead due to guns (-2)). If (person A) defends (himself +1 and kills Person B (-1 due to guns)) It’s -1 because the gun didn’t save any lives it only took (person B’s) My point, If there were no guns allowed (person B) couldn’t attack (Person A) with a gun and there would be no gun deaths.

    • Oh I’m an Army Veteran too so please refrain from that line of rebuttal. The military in defense of our nation should be provided with the tools to defend itself from enemies foreign and domestic.

      • The only army you’re familiar with is the GI Joe action figure. And probably in a disgusting way.

      • You seem to be a perverted old man and Just because I disagree with you doesn’t change the fact that the very amendment you’re evoking right now having this conversation I defended. You may not like the the views of the Military personnel are changing but they are. sorry.

    • York, do you REALLY believe that drivel? If it was true, don’t you think the police and military would have been disarmed years ago? Sophomoric rhetoric doesn’t carry the day, kid.

      • I’m not a kid, thank you and I don’t believe Police should carry guns. They don’t in European countries and they have far less violence. It’s a western state of mind that keeps them in our hands. Military personnel should have weapons.

      • European countries are just as violent as any Western Country.. WHY IS THAT?? People. People are VIOLENT and when people get together they get violent. It wont matter to them if they ahve a gun handy hell Ive seen people use some of the craziest things in the world as weapons. GUNS (weapons of any kind) do NOT KILL..PEOPLE KILL!!! This is why having a gun in your possession for protection if a must. If someone comes at me intent on doing me harm I want to have a gun to protect me and mine!! I cant very well protect myself with a rock…. but the bastard coming to harm me can sure hurt me with one!!

      • Well Cain never existed so….. the bible as an argument holds no value. If Cain did exist you have no choice but to admit that he slept with his mother to procreate his kids. Nice teachings there God.

      • saying that Cain didnt exist isnt answering the question. He used a ROCK (whether you believe or not) rocks were used 2000 years ago to kill and they are still used to this day to kill. Sticks and ropes are used as well. Dont forget knives.

      • No I’m 30, and it is a good argument being adopted but the United States Department of Defense.

    • Saving the life of an innocent is still saving a life. Killing a thug is saving a life. Your argument doesn’t take into account the felonious actions that would be considered life threatening to the innocent, and by eliminating them, you save lives.

      • Sure it takes into account the actions of the “thug” but his life holds value too thus, one dead and if he had no guns then 0 dead.

      • ?!! You are almost telling me that you care more of those two dirtbags more than the victims which were a Mother and Daughter that were going to be robbed, possibly rape, and most likely to be murdered… You priority about humanity is really astounding Corey!

    • But if I was the one being attacked I would be alive. Your math wouldn’t get you through 1st grade. The bad guys will always have guns. The sooner you figure that out the better. What if it was you being dragged back into your home. You would be singing a different tune.

      • No I wouldn’t, I graduated college with a degree in Philosophy and know math fairly well. I’ve been in the military and done 3 tours of duty so I’m not scared of guns but irresponsible civilians, like yourself don’t know how to act responsible.

      • Just because you served or have a college degree does not give you a right to tell others that they should not have a gun to defend themselves. Their will always be irresponsible civilians Cory! Just like their are irresponsible civilians driving cars where the death rate is much higher than any gun has done…. Have we ban cars yet?

    • Bet the attacker wouldn’t have attacked had he thought the one being attacked would defend themselves with a weapon. OH WELL! Kill or be killed. Survival of the fittest, I guess.

    • whether it was a gun, a bat, a knife or a rock.. these people are animals and will use whatever they can to maim and or kill their victims. Right now in the UK, they have a war on knives.. not a war on guns, but knives. Why knives?? because guns have been declared illegal and the only people allowed to have them are the cops and military. ( criminals still have them). Knives are the next best thing to these criminals though. If they cant kill you with a gun, then they will use a knife (or whatever they can get their hands on)… Guns DON’T KILL PEOPLE and Neither do knives… PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE AND THEY WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO UNTIL THE END OF TIME!!

    • ?!! Really? Considering those two were going to do a home invasion, possible rape, and maybe murder…. The gun did save lives Corey! You go ahead and rely on the police to rescue you if God forbid you have have a home invasion. The police most of the time show up to either call a ambulance or marking chalk lines around your prone cold body.

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