Bakers guilty of violating women’s rights over lesbian wedding cake

Here’s another one of those stories that goes beyond the realm of common sense and makes you just shake your head. Hat tip to Joe Saunders at BizPac Review for bringing us the story of Aaron and Melissa Klein of Oregon. The co-owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa have drawn the ire and nearly a year of harassment form gay rights activist groups. Their offense, as BizPac reports, is that the declined to make a cake for a lesbian couple celebrating their marriage. They’ve been found guilty in a state investigation of violating the women’s rights – even though Oregon doesn’t even permit gay marriage.

According to the state, businesses may not deny service to customers because of sexual orientation. But that’s not what the Kleins say they did. They say the women have been customers before; the Kleins say they refused to service a gay wedding for religious reasons.

You mean to tell me there’s only one place to get a wedding cake done in all of Portland, Oregon? Seems to me the Kleins were targeted by the lesbian couple for political reasons. If indeed they had previously been patrons of the business and were served, then the Kleins simply declined to do the wedding cake because of their freedom of religion and expression.

We are entering a dangerous phase in America where businesses are being punished for their beliefs — case in point, the Obama administration’s attack on Hobby Lobby.

The Kleins are not the first to run into this situation, as the same thing happened to a New Mexico photographer, Elaine Huguenin, who declined to shoot the wedding of lesbian couple Vanessa Willock and Misti Collinsworth. As reported by the UK Daily Mail,

The women then filed a discrimination lawsuit again Ms Huguenin. New Mexico law prohibits businesses from discriminating against people based on their sexuality. Ms Huguenin and her business Elaine Photography have so far lost the discrimination case in the courts. However she is now bringing her battle to the Supreme Court, claiming that being forced to photograph the love story of a lesbian couple violates her right to free speech and her deeply-held Christian beliefs.

Most disturbing is this statement by Louise Melling, a lawyer at the American Civil Liberties Union who told the New York Times that “although it was a difficult case, the equal treatment of same-sex couples is more important than the photographer’s business.”

The message from these two cases seem to be quite clear: there is no freedom of religion or practice of beliefs for Christian business owners. The politics of pandering to a loud, vocal minority based on their own private sexual choices are more important.

If this continues to be the case in America, are we promoting free market enterprise, only so long as it operates within a certain politicized agenda? Common sense free market principles would say, open up bakeries and photography studios within the gay community that are tailored to that clientele, based on supply and demand.

Instead, one group seeks to punish another for not accepting its lifestyle choice. Furthermore, if the government is supposed to stay out of the bedroom, then why is the government making regulations and rules, telling business owners what they must do based on what others have chosen to do in their private lives?

Sadly, the Kleins have learned how supposedly tolerant the Left and gay community are. After a year of hate-filled, threatening emails and canceled contracts – even a break-in of their company truck, they’ve closed the bakery and now operate out of their home.

This is just wrong in so many ways and don’t try to argue that gay rights are the new civil rights battle. Sexual behavior is not the same as race.

774 COMMENTS

  1. Been following this, I was afraid they would be convicted. Convicted of having moral standards, and standing up for their Christian beliefs!

  2. “You mean to tell me there’s only one place to get a wedding cake done in all of Portland, Oregon?”

    You meant to tell me there’s only one lunch counter in all of Selma, Alabama for these black people to sit at?

  3. This is just more of our freedoms being taken away. My religious beliefs would have kept me from photographing the marriage, and also baking the cake. However, if people want to be gay, that’s their business, not mine.

    • I agree, sweetie, it is not your business, nor is it mine. However, it becomes your business when they get you into their legal web, where they can embarrass you socially, harass you, or bilk you our of some money in court and legal fees. They just want attention, and like any infant, screaming loudly will usually attract someone. It is wrong, and shouldn’t be happening in a free country, but political correctness is a powerful tool of the liberals; a big stick to beat people into accepting their various vices, and they will continue to use it until some of us rise up and stick their stick in their posterior and giving it a serious twist! I suppose it might be better to say you are all booked up or going on a vacation during the period in question. Or, as a cake maker or a photographer, you could just take the order and subcontract it to some other cake maker or photographer who doesn’t object to the gae and lesbian lifestyle. Or maybe just ignore your feelings, grit your teeth, and do the business, and charge a premium for your extra efforts. Hobby Lobby, Chik-Fil-A, The Duck Dynasty, all stood up, and I applaud them all.

  4. I remember a few weeks back when A&E suspended Phil Robertson, liberals were supporting A&E saying that they are a private company and have the right to do business with whomever they choose.

    I suspect this is somehow “different”. It usually is when it no longer fits the talking points.

    • exactly! wow…hit the nail on the head. Great job A and E for supporting us. Bad Bad cake business owner for not supporting us. Good point. along.

  5. It’s really very simple and it is STIPULATED right in plain English on
    all businesses licenses issued in the state of Oregon. You WILL comply
    with public accommodation laws or you WILL lose your business license.
    It’s really not that hard to understand, is it? But cheer up, Christians! There are still PLENTY of other states where it remains perfectly legal to refuse gay customers.

    • so if a murderer or a child molester walked int o your place of business and wants something its ok? give me a break, if you find that its ok then you are just sick minded. we all have rights and we should try to accomadate one another but we should never be forced to .

      • Considering that Muslims reject the right of two men or two women to be together, and it is an offense punishable by death, I do not see any one trying to push their buttons. You see, they take their idea of to death to mean that it would be honorable to kill someone who goes against Allah. Thus, they would be willing to sacrifice their own life to rid the earth of those who are an abomination.

      • The laws were written to protect religion, not discriminate against religion. This new craze, to make one’s sexual choices thrust onto the public is totally not in the constitution, and thus is misinterpreting the written constitution. We don’t care what happens behind closed doors, but the laws cannot require anyone to be forced to accept the sins of others. Religion is protected more so than anyone’s individual wants.

    • So the public will dictate to the businesses who they are to give service to? So, if a business owner is getting cursed, belittled, or verbally attacked…I guess they just have to smile and comply with the public? good thing i don’t live there. There is still a right to refuse service to an unaccommodating public. That’s the beauty of free markets. There’s more than one cake shop. Plus they (government both local and federal) have Civil rights issues (i.e. Cracker Barrel…etc etc) that has to comply with color of skin, etc etc. But i don’t see where race or sexual affiliation are anywhere remotely in the same ball park. Business owners who refuse service to someone on account of skin color is and should be wrong. But a Christian place of business…who incidentally does business with the gay couple anyway, but wouldn’t do a “wedding” seems more like the gay couple wanting to beat the fists on their chests and not respect the belief’s of the business owners…and that joey, IS wrong. at least out of respect…go somewhere else!!

    • obvious troll continues to troll…obviously. And also contradicting itself within same comments. Said in another post is illegal in all 50 yet says in others including this one its not…

  6. Is it just me, or does it seem most liberals are just unhappy people looking to make the lives of other people as miserable as there own? They need to learn to ‘get over it’ and let others believe what they want to believe and let them live their lives as they see fit….as long as no physical harm is involved.

  7. We need the names and address of these lesbos and I’ll have my uncle Guido blow up their home and make it look like an accidental gas leak.

      • God will destroy someone and it will look like a nuclear bomb went off if they try to hurt one of God’s children who serve Him. We don’t need Guido to do anything. God is our avenger. And yes, it is tuff love when God ends the life of someone who is deliberately hurting His children.

      • I would think you would use the loss of life more, like the murder of innocent life in abortions. Those who commit murder cannot have salvation in the flesh. Thus, anyone who supported democrats, supported abortion because it was part of their platform. All democrats are condemned at this time, and any republicans, libertarians and anyone who supports murder of infants while they are in the womb.

      • The soul that rebelled against God still has the millennium if it doesn’t have a chance during it’s life time in this earth age, to seek God and learn discipline.

  8. The exact same thing is happening to a flower shop in Richland,WA. Arlene’s Flowers in Richland, Wa refused to do the floral arrangements for a same sex wedding and are being prosecuted for it. There are plenty of flower shops here. Targeting a business that you know will not be comfortable providing services to you and then filing charges against the business is just wrong. Those people have their belief system and just like same sex couples, they would hope you would honor their beliefs too!

  9. if I owned a business I think I should do so in the way I wanted not for someone elses plans. I am catholic, I do not believe in same sex marriage, it is my right to . so If I opened a business I will not be forced to do something I do not believe in. period.and I should not have to be forced. I would close my business rather being forced to do something. if anyone wants to be able to put their input into my business they best pay half of the bills.

    • Welcome to Amerika Comradette. I am seriously rethinking my position on abortion. But we will have to start with judges, lawyers and politicians. What ? Don’t the “people” have a “choice” in how they are governed ? Think about it.

      • Abortion is murder, and God would hold you accountable not only for the death of your own child, but for the death of all children murdered by abortion. You cannot have salvation in the flesh if you support murder, which is what every democrat has done when they voted this last election, and if you are guilty of committing, or helping in committing abortion. Thus, the rationale of nurses not to wish to be a part of that sin. Why should we give up our right to be with God just for some selfish sinners who do not want to be with God in the first place?

  10. Long standing Oregon state law: “Discrimination in Public Accommodation: A place of public accommodation is defined in state law as any place that offers the public accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges, whether in the nature of goods, services, lodging, amusements or otherwise. It is illegal to discriminate in places of public accommodation on the basis of race, sex (including pregnancy), sexual orientation, national origin, religion, marital status, physical or mental disability, or age.”

    If you don’t live the law in your state, change it or MOVE.

    http://www.oregon.gov/boli/CRD/pages/c_crprotoc.aspx

      • Ummm, actually I am staring back in forth between my computer screen and my license hanging on the wall of MY business. Next.

      • It’s a privately owned company. So, once again, you are wrong. How about you post a photo of said permit.

      • Then you don’t have to worry. In Louisiana is it perfectly legal to refuse to serve gay people. You must however, serve Muslims, which I’m certain is very upsetting to you.

      • No, since I am a private company, I can service whomever I choose unless I am going into a contract with the federal or state.

      • Nope. You are kidding yourself. “It is a
        discriminatory practice for a person to deny an
        individual the full and equal enjoyment of the goods,
        services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and
        accommodations of a place of public accommodation,
        resort, or amusement. A place of public accommodation, resort, or amusement is defined as any place, store, or other establishment, either licensed or unlicensed, which supplies goods or services to the general public or which solicits or accepts the patronage or trade of the general public.”

        http://www.gov.state.la.us/HumanRights/function.htm

      • When going into a public contract with consumer, ie, accepting purchase using LA Purchase card, or accepting a transaction using publicly funded money. Unless the state was funding the wedding, there is no case. Furthermore, the business owner does have right to refusal of such government payment if it effects the business in a negative manner. Like loss of money.

      • OK. I dare you to place a sign in your business declaring your refusal to serve Muslims. See how long that lasts. LOL.

      • really…so when you said this was illegal in all 50 states you were lying. in your own words now as well. Makes your posts trust level about nill now.

      • As long as those Muslims are not committing a sin against God, why would it be a problem to serve them? They worship their idea of who God is. It just is not the true aspect of how God wants to be perceived. He came here, born of woman, in order to show us how to live our lives. He allowed himself to be sacrificed in order to cleanse our souls of sin. And all that we have to do is live by His laws, and not be persuaded to sin by those who do not respect God or themselves.

      • And I have permits to do business across state lines as the products that I supply come from out of state. If you would like, give me your information and I will have my attorney go over the laws with you to clear it up with you.

      • They didnt refuse to serve just refuse to do a special cake for them. The women could have bought any standard cake available at the counter. If I go to a tattoo artist and he refuses to do a tattoo for any reason but will give me one from his flash collection then he has broke no law.

      • If the roof leaks on this so-called “public accommodation”, does the city or state pay for the leak? What about if the sidewalk in front of the business is covered with snow, and someone slips and falls….do they sue the city, or state, or the business owner????? Following your religious beliefs is not discrimination, however, being FORCED to go against your beliefs IS discrimination. It’s making your religion and it’s beliefs a minority opinion, and taking away the voice of that religion. Replace “religion” with “color of skin” and your argument falls flat. Let me guess….you think Obamacare is a good idea, and Hillary would make a great President??????LOL…

      • he’s (ie Joe)just a paid media matters troll here to stir things up, already contradicted itself numerous times in a few threads just to keep things going.

    • according to another post of yours you said it was illegal in all 50, oh you mean the other post was made up and not true….

      • All 50 states protect religion. Only 21 include sexual orientation in public accommodation laws. Pay attention.

      • Cakes for weddings do not meet the standard for public accommodation, neither do photographers. You were called on this BS elsewhere in this thread.

      • Actually, it is a blessing to serve God and to know that we are suffering for Him. He truly suffered for us, and we have an obligation to see this to the end of our lives. For those who would do us harm or our livelihood, God will avenge us. Be warned, those who are against God will suffer more than anything they do to us.

      • Both of the case in the original poster’s comment involved religion. Reading comprehension. It’s a thing.

      • which is something you’ve not shown, so pay attention. So how much does media matters pay? per post?

      • I wish I knew how much they pay. I’d LOVE to get a check for doing something I love so much! LOLOLOL!

  11. This was a family of five. They were forced out of business by gblt groups who had government support. Freedom of religion is dying.

    • That is the Plan and was from the beginning- Rid the earth of Christian Values so they can do what they want! Problems is that the Christians, are the Salt of the Earth- Salt is a Preservative! Take away the preservative and then you have total decay! The Church will be with Jesus and men will beg for death! Think I am making this up? Go look in the book of Revelations, the last book in the BIBLE!!!

      • Amen. This starts from lies way back (sexual revolution, etc.)that have grown past capacity..destroying decency. But no one is taking a stand. Christians stay silent while liberals squawk. We aren’t bold.

  12. Imagine if a business turned away patrons because they were Christian. Oh, how the religious right would cry then! But because they are gays and are still in the minority, it’s okay by all of your standards. Get used to the real world, where discrimination is no longer applauded. I’m thankful for that.

    • Actually they didn’t deny them service. They said they don’t make wedding cakes for gay marriage because they don’t believe in that. The lesbo couples were allowed to buy anything else. Religious freedom is a right as stated in the constitution. Forcing your sexuality down someone’s throat is not

    • Christians would simply find another baker and bakery that would serve us! There are enough bakeries in a major city like Portland that couple if gals could have gone to patronize!

    • Happens all the time….We have a restaurant/caterer in the town im from that refuses to cater Christian weddings all the time. Guess what the Christians have done ? Gone to a caterer that does…No big deal…..

    • It wouldn’t be a big deal to most. Frankly, once I realized someone didn’t want my business because I was Christian, I would gladly seek out a Christian business to support.

    • I for one dont view refusal to make a specific cake discrimination. If I wanted a demonic cake and they refused it because they didnt want to do it due to religious reason then who am I to argue. I would just buy a standard cake that they offered, then if they refused it would be discrimination. You see a wedding cake is not a standard item on the menu it is a specialty. They can refuse to make any cake that is outside their normal range.

  13. Just curious…I wonder what would happen if a Muslim baker refused to make a cake for a Christian wedding because they believe they are infidels and serving pork at the event. Sad but somehow I think they would be supported because of their religious beliefs!!!
    Look at the taxi driver refusing to transport people who might be carrying alcohol

    • There is a grocery chain of 700 stores called Marks and Spencer which now allows their Muslim cashiers to refuse service to customers buying alcohol and/or pork. The worldwide trend, it seems, is to tiptoe around Muslims while discriminating against Christians at every opportunity.

      • Be joyous in that we have the opportunity to serve God during these times. God never promised you a Rose Garden. He even told us that these times would be difficult and we would have to give our lives for our Faith.

  14. I wonder why the same sex couple was not accepting of the business’s wishes and beliefs. I guess that mentality only runs one way

    • It’s the trademark of the left. They are so threatened by differing opinions that those who disagree with them must be destroyed.

      • It’s so strange to me. Those who dub themselves “tolerant” are the most intolerant people I know. I think they must have a different definition of “tolerant”.

      • I think if we just assume the opposite we’ll understand.

        Tolerant = Intolerant
        Affordable = Unaffordable
        Green = Putting us in the red
        Phony scandal = real dead Americans
        You can keep your insurance= You can keep your insurance cancellation letter

        The list goes on…

    • Gays are being led by satan, and therefore, have no compassion or concern for someone else’s soul. If their own soul is foul, why not bring others down as well? That is why those who rebelled against God in the first earth age are for the most part here now.

  15. State and Federal civil rights laws generally cover discrimination in public accommodation, such as lodging, restaurants, and transportation. Oregon is big on equal rights based on sexual orientation. I can see where a case can be made under public accommodation for the bakers being required to provide a cake to the couple. What they do not have to do is use their artistic talent to decorate the cake such that the art would contravene their sincere religious beliefs. Cake decorating is an artistic expression which is protected under the First Amendment free speech provisions. Public accommodation requires they provide a plain cake, while free speech protects their artistic expression.

    The same argument can be made for the photographers. Photography has long been recognized as an element of the fine arts, and is an artistic endeavor which does not fall under the purview of public accommodation. The photographers are artists and their photography is their art. Their art has greater protection under the First Amendment.

    • But not when the photographer is selling their work to the public by commission, as the overwhelming majority do. And which requires a business license from the state.

      • Many artists sell their art work. Picasso sold his art. Van Gogh, not so much. Art is not public accommodation, as it is not lodging or food or transportation. It is expression. Please, don’t let your Philistine inclinations and lack of appreciation and understanding of the arts cloud your judgement.

      • oh but not Joe. he’s all about the governement making sure everyone can parley…forget about artistic anything! great point though. great point.

      • Picasso and Van Gogh would have required a business license in Oregon and therefore would be required by long-standing state law to sell to gay people.

      • Au contraire, mon ami. Look at my post re the definition of public accommodation, and you will note that it does not include anything about the possession of a business license.

      • A place of “public accommodation” is defined as “an establishment either affecting interstate commerce or supported by state action, and falling into one of the following categories: (1) a lodging for transient guests located within a building with more than five rooms for rent; (2) a facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including such facilities located within retail establishments and gasoline stations; (3) any place of exhibition or entertainment; (4) any establishment located within an establishment falling into one of the first three categories, and which holds itself out as serving patrons of that establishment; or (5) any establishment that contains a covered establishment, and which holds itself out as serving patrons of that covered establishment. Bishop v. Henry Modell & Co., 2009 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 104830, 39-40 (S.D.N.Y.

        Ergo, the bakers are required to sell a cake, albeit a plain undecorated cake. The photographers do not meet the definition of public accommodations, as their art is just that, art.

    • I think they were a regular family who didn’t have the money for all the lawyering in the courts. Forced to shut down.

      • National Christian legal groups have provide pro bono counsel to all the defendants cited in this story. They have all lost.

  16. What if a bakery was run by Muslims? I’m pretty sure they kill homosexuals in Muslim run governments. I’m not bashing on anyone, but I don’t think this would play out the same if Muslims were running the business and denied service for a gay wedding. I’m just really curious how this would play out.

  17. the way to deal with this is not to deny gays service but sell then the cake but the top you don’t have to carry or just hit them with a huge price to make the cake what ever the normal price of the cake add a zero behind it a hundred dollar cake and make it a thousand dollar cake they may buy a cake to make a point but if your going to be forced to make the cake make them pay through the nose for it lol

      • Go to Iran and tell them that. It’s called a free market. Any person can deny anyone service for any reason.

      • I find it odd that there are so many reports about Gays and their supporters refusing business to those that oppose the gay lifestyle. But that’s OK in the eyes of government.

    • That is more criminal than refusing to make them a cake that specifies their sexual perversion. I would make them the cake and let them decorate it as they wish. I am not supporting anything by making a cake. But anything beyond that is extracting a support of their sin.

  18. A can of worms was opened when the powers that be convinced us that Homosexuality was equal to a RACE or NATIONALITY, and, therefore, shouldn’t be discriminated against.

    • Because of past sins, they created a lie: connect race to sexually perverse acts. Very clever, very deceptive. But God brings things to light. I am a Christian, and I believe that.

  19. I wonder what would be said if I ran a Liberal shop ( say as a campaign manager for instance) and a republican came in and demanded my services and I refused.

    • The republican will go to another shop. It’s called a free market. Unlike liberals, we don’t whine about other people making free choices.

      • You can have a civil union. A “marriage” is a religious institution. Treating two things that are not equal as equal is absurd.

      • Nope. Legal marriage is a secular contract performed, endorsed, and recognized by state and federal governments.

      • Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. It was created by God in the beginning of this earth age. It was written down by men who were inspired by God, over 6,000 years ago. And all that two men can create are infections and a need to wear diapers at an early age.

      • Hey Joe, Paul was speaking about women who were chattering in the church. during services. And God does have in this earth age, a heirachy of authority in the home, when answering to GOD. God has deemed the man to be directly responsible to Christ, and the woman to the man, and the children to the woman. It has nothing to do with any other issue. In other words, the woman is just as equal to the man in the relationship. Thus, the rationale of why two men have a disproportionate ability to be under Christ, because they would both have to have the position. Thus, it does not work.

        Now, if there is a home where the man is an infidel, the woman is justified to answer to Christ, and the children answer to the mother. The man is left out. As I said, this is only in terms of answering to God, in His Heirachy of responsibility.

        It would be nice if you really did know the Bible, because according to Christ, in the end days, women would be very actively doing His service in preparing those who will listen, to the knowledge of the end days. And even those who claim to be Christian, are ignorant about who is coming first. Christ will not come until all have faced satan and made their choice. Bowing to him, and serving him are choices.

      • That is not marriage. It is not blessed or supported by God. And when man tries to upsurp God, they tend to suffer in many ways. God can withold His blessings, and protection from the evil in this world, when man tries to change that which God has blessed through His Perfect Plan of Salvation.

      • Sure. Call it what you want. Doesn’t MAKE it marriage. Time to get the govt out of the marriage business anyway.

    • I can’t speak for everyone, but if anyone didn’t want to serve me because of my race, my gender, my orientation, I would just go to another place. That being said, think about it. If a business didn’t serve me because I was black, then I tell some other people, and it makes the news, and suddenly no one wants to go to that business. They get such a bad name, that they have to close their doors. That’s how free markets actually help the right people at the right time, without interference.

      • Nope. Gay marriage is not legal in Oregon and it was not legal in any of those 21 states when they passed their laws, some of which go back more than 30 years.

      • Being a jerk is not illegal anywhere. No court can force me to provide a service to anyone. I will simply refuse to comply as should these bakers.

      • You keep saying that and yet all these anti-gay business owners keep losing case after case after case. How strange!

      • That is very true and they can sue you for being racist, sexist etc. Because Sexual discrimination based on orientation is illegal.

      • And God will avenge our lives, with death and destruction to those who cause us harm. I am not afraid of standing up for my right to worship and believe what God has put forth as His laws. What you chose to believe is your right, but when you try to trample my right to my beliefs, then you break the laws. And it is my understanding that the laws you are trying to push are recent and not those which this country was founded. No one’s sexual preference should be made an issue or manifest in public. Thus, you are trying to bring me into your bedroom, where I do not wish to be.

      • They can sue… Proving damages however, is impossible. …and since the court can’t force me to perform a service… It would be pointless and I will laugh in their faces.

      • It is not bigotry to abide by God’s Laws. He commanded us that we are to multiply so that all of the souls created could have the opportunity to come into this earth age and make a choice between God and satan. Those who chose to go against God have that right. But they do not have the right to force us to become part of their sin, and that is what this is all about. When you accept someone’s sin, like abortion, then you are guilty of the same sin. Thus, you become a murderer and cannot have salvation while in the flesh. No Christian wants to lose their place in heaven with GOD over someone else’s decision to put themselves over God in their lives. And it is the same for any other sin, we would be as guilty as they are if we accept their actions as legally or morally correct. The immoral may make God’s laws change in our country, but we may not accept them nor support them. In fact, it is unto death that we are to serve God.

      • Fortunately for the tens of millions of Americans that are not Christians, we do not live in a theocracy. Therefore “God’s Laws” (as you see them) are irrelevant in our secular government.

      • They are irrelevant for you. Not for me. Thus, the protection of Church from the State. You cannot force onto me, your belief in same sex. It is not my concern, nor do I want to even know what is going on in your bedroom. And I am not obligated to even agree with you that it is a right. In my faith is it an abomination.

      • Even so, this country was founded upon Christian principals; which is why there is so much trouble now in trying to deny this reality and overturn these sound principals. Nothing is perfect. But Minority cannot rule over the Majority. The LGBT community is less than 3% of the entire population – even though heralded in the media and TV as if it were much greater. This all to continue to expose impressionable children during their own years of sexual self-discovery, etc. etc. Not one scientist has found the genetics to back up any ‘born gay’ claims. It is sad indeed that a tiny minority of people are burdened by hormonal imbalances and true mis-identification. I would not wish to live their life. But that is different indeed than what a majority (outside of Hollywood) believe to be an offense to their God. Even so, Christians wish to live in peace and love all others. But nowhere are we instructed to just lay down and be run over by those who choose to spit in the eye of their Creator.
        Clearly you are an atheist, so I don’t expect you to even understand. You are part of the world’s moral system of beliefs which glorifies ‘self’. Christians, like Muslims and many other religions, are warned not to practice according to the world’s system. People of this world, live for this life and cater to every desire. Christians sacrifice a moments pleasure to live for an after/eternal life with their Creator. Without respect for our Creator; you will not/cannot understand.

      • Joe, where were you in high school? The constitution protects religions. Therefore, you cannot force your beliefs onto me. Your belief in this idea of homosexuality as a new lifestyle is not something I have to accept. Nor will any one who wants to be in good standing with God. As I said, I am not trying to make you believe, but you don’t have the right to force me to either.

      • The tens of millions whom are not Christians are either Jews or Muslims. There are very few who are atheists, and other religions. The point is this, the Constitution protects religion in that no one religion can push their agenda onto any other. And homosexuality is a form of religious belief. Like many other chosen ways to behave, it is immoral for some believers and is not something that should even become an issue. Keep your lifestyle in the bedroom where it belongs.

      • Now your conversation is degraded into kindergarden copout. I never put my sexuality out there. So it is not up for discussion. I don’t expect you to accept me, my beliefs or my path in life. When you stop trying to force onto others the path that you are on, then we would be equal. As I said before, changing the way that you are recognized by the rest of society has to do with you, not your sexuality and not in trying to force it’s acceptance onto others.

      • Muslims and Jews together comprise a total of 2.3% of the US population. That is HARDLY tens of millions. But an estimated 15-20% of Americans say they are atheist, agnostic, or “unchurched.” THAT population IS in the tens of millions and it is growing by millions annually.

      • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States
        Of the 15 to 20 percent, only about 8 percent are actually atheists. And yes it is growing. Why? Because these are the end days, and it is written that people will wax cold towards God. In fact, I believe that the majority who rebelled against God in the first earth age will comprise the majority of those who are here when satan comes to gather up his forces. Being a spiritual being, he will claim to be christ, and will easily sway those who do not study the Bible for themselves. Like the Jones party, they will be led into losing their salvation.
        Being an atheist doesn’t make you smarter, but in some ways, they might be more skeptical and not fall for satan, or maybe they will. Who knows? The point is, that only those who know satan comes first will be prepared and knowledgeable to fight against satan’s spiritual weaponry and deceit. Those who voted for Obama don’t seem competant in knowing when they have been had, so they will be the first to fall for satan’s lies. Those who claim to be Christians,if they fall for his claim to be Christ, will be denied their pass because they bowed down and worshipped satan.

      • You are a complete ass Where did you get your facts? It must be from some liberal organization that has poisoned your mind and oh you drink too much kool aid. And for your info I don’t live in Arizona you jerk.

  20. Forcing anyone to believe in gay marriage is just as bad as someone being forced to believe a certain religion. No matter what my opinion is, I refuse to acknowledge and accept your beliefs as you do not accept mine. Who are you to say I WANT I WANT, ACCEPT ME ACCEPT ME, ME ME ME ME, and you spit in the face of those who hold their religions so close to their hearts? NO, you do not get to sit on a pedestal higher than mine because you think your right and I am wrong. It’s a two way street, stop driving like you own the place. You get respect when you show respect.

      • “According to the state, businesses may not deny service to customers because of sexual orientation. But that’s not what the Kleins say they did. They say the women have been customers before; the Kleins say they refused to service a gay wedding for religious reasons.” Does it not say wedding there? I didn’t say it would be a legalized union of 2 poeple.

      • Surely there must be a reputable third party entity involved that’s collecting donations? If a school bus monitor can get thousands of dollars in donations after being harassed by snarky kids, there’s got to be someone willing to help this couple out. At least to help them relocate if they so choose. (I’m not that person, however. I’d be clueless.)

      • As a Christian, it’s our duty to love all people–that’s what Jesus charged us to do. Even people like you; the ladies in question; all gay folks–I’ve even prayed for Bin Laden, because GOD LOVED HIM, too. I’m not a bigot, but I do read scripture and attempt to live by it. Am I always successful? No! None of us are! That’s why God had to send Jesus to save us. Read your Bible, Dave; especially the four Gospels. They say is so much better than I ever could! 🙂

  21. Refusing to sell a wedding cake to a lesbian couple because you disagree with homosexuality is no different than refusing to sell a wedding cake to an interracial couple because you believe that the Bible forbids interracial marriage.

  22. So…..how come they served them before? If it was religious reasons pertaining the their sexuality…..then they should have refused service from day one. They didn’t “target” anyone…..they went to the same bakery they had already been going to and served at until it came time for a wedding cake…..

      • I’m just wondering…..if their money was good enough for the owners to shrug of their “strong religious beliefs” in the past……why turn them down for the wedding cake?

      • I can see where a case can be made under public accommodation for the bakers being required to provide a cake to the couple. What they do not have to do is use their artistic talent to decorate the cake such that the art would contravene their sincere religious beliefs. Cake decorating is an artistic expression which is protected under the First Amendment free speech provisions. Public accommodation requires they provide a plain cake, while free speech protects their artistic expression and religious freedom in the decoration of the cake.

      • I’m so sure the one cake was worth way more money than any other baked items that particular couple had purchased before. Hello. They have a right to refuse service. All they had to do was find another baker who agrees with their lifestyle. Now a days there are plenty. Case closed.

      • Because you Don’t have to tell someone you are having a gay Danish together or a gay pastry. For the most part Christians don’t have a problem with what ever sin you want to participate in just don’t ask us to participate with you.

    • Your question has already been answered on this thread before you asked. They have no problem with them or interfere with their lifestyle. Now come the couple wanting the baker to bake them a custom made cake celebrating their lifestyle, which the baker’s beliefs don’t agree with, and they refused. I’m sure if they had ordered a cake of an aborted baby they would have turned them down as well. People need to use their brains. Looks like there a millions running around missing one.

    • Serving someone in their bakery is not the same as catering the wedding. Since when does someone’s sexual preferance come up when buying donuts, pies and other bakery products?

  23. According to the article, they’re being targeted for not accepting the couple’s lifestyle choice. That is an inaccurate statement. They had served them before in spite of disagreeing with their lifestyle choice. What they are actually being punished for is for not taking part in a celebration of a lifestyle choice they disagree with. This is far worse than going after them for discrimination. What we (those of us who disagree with their lifestyle choices) are being told is that it’s not enough to be tolerant; we also have to take part in what we disagree with.
    Where is the tolerance for people who don’t agree? Apparently, tolerance only goes one way!

  24. This was the agenda of the lesbian couple from the beginning. They could have just moved on to another bakery but chose instead to force this issue. Anyone who was just looking for a wedding cake would have just moved on. If the couple cannot even be legally married in Oregon why did they need a wedding cake? This was a sham and these women have only made themselves look petty and obnoxious.

  25. Why are these law suits not considered frivolous and thrown out of court? This is so wrong on so many levels and I am very sure that there are other bakeries that will accommodate these women or men

  26. Since progressivism has legalized same-sex marriages, when are we legalizing polygamy? We have never allowed polygamy to redefine the constitutional connotation of the word marriage. What would be the harm in a brother and sister getting married? Why is such discrimination palatable? Certainly not the fact of genetically flawed reproductio, because legalized abortions are available. Same sex sibling marriage can never result in reproductive… why not legalize?

    Until individuals are willing to stand for aforementioned example, then on does not fully believe in marrige equality.

  27. Personally I wouldn’t want to eat a cake that someone who was forced to make it made. Could have all sorts of weird stuff in it. Ex Lax comes to mind.

    • I hadn’t though of it from a purely practical standpoint. It would be like going to a restaurant and insulting the chef, then trusting him not to pee in your sauce.

      • Someone’s ethnicity and someones sexuality are totally different issues. Only the extremely opportunistic LGBT community chooses to blur the lines in order to further their agenda, ie., forced acceptance outside our private homes of their lifestyle and other ideas that tag along…. It probably won’t be long before Christian beliefs and sacred texts are banished altogether as hate speech both inside and outside our homes. Nothing new here. Simply history repeating itself. The LGBT community will align itself with any group if it furthers their agenda including Planned Parenthood and their demands for ‘ the right to choose to kill an unborn American child. It’s so interesting to read the roots of PP being an organization that began in a deliberate effort to lower the birthrates of black Americans but later continued because the money was so great. Oh how the liberals spin, spin, spin to have their way.

    • Oh I would make the cake with out any speaking up on behalf of my feelings and I would be with in my rights to make the cake the way I want to make it. I cant say I would want to eat the cake when I was done. This is why I will never attend a Gay wedding because I cant be assured that the food was not tainted.

    • I guess “Discrimination” trumps our rights to refuse service to someone. AND trumps the fact that it is our business, AND our Christian beliefs. Wish we could have a “do-over!”

      • Yes, this is how America was SUPPOSED to operate. But, NOW, we have a Congress that IGNORES the will of the people who elect them. And that’s just ONE hurdle.

      • The interpretation of the laws does not state in any manner that what happens in the bedroom would even be an issue for the public. Thus, the judges are not interpreting the law, but making it up.

      • Who is more equal? Christians and gays are covered under the exact same provision of Oregon’s anti-discrimination law.

      • So a gay baker could refuse service to a Christian and get the same kind of prosecution?

        Yeah … some how I doubt that. Right here, a state senator was refused service in a restaurant because of his religious views. The restaurant owner was not charged for discrimination or anything else.

        Any business owner should be free to choose with whom he or she does business … period.

      • Absolutely a gay baker could be prosecuted for refusing to serve a Christian. In fact, Christians have been so protected for almost 50 years, since the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. There are NO such federal protections for gay people, which is why 21 states, including Oregon, have passed laws of their own.

      • And yet … there is rampant discrimination going on against Christians, and the laws allow it. Case in point … the bakery we are talking about right here. The baker did not refuse to service the customers because they were gay. Indeed, they had provided products to these same women for other occasions, which had nothing to do with their gay lifestyle. When it comes to participating in a celebration of a lifestyle they deem to be sinful, they were acting on their Christian belief, which clearly states it is a sin to condone the sins of others.

        So yes, this case is a case of discrimination against Christians, and has been upheld by the court.

      • Great … let’s vote out the lawmakers that ignore the will of the people and elect leaders like Allen West, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Mike Lee. Then we can do away with stupid laws that discriminate against one group of people while giving more rights to another group.

      • Nobody is stopping the public from voting into power whomever they please. But you’ll likely never repeal any civil rights law. That’s never happened.

      • Clearly you enjoy this painful discussion as you make light of the Christian’s inability to exercise their beliefs. Also, Muslims are never targeted by the gay community because we all know the outcome of that transaction. Our existing administration therefore offers up Christians for fodder. The street of respect never runs both ways in this intentionally inflammatory issue. Businesses are intentionally targeted to promote the gay agenda and the government looks the other way because of many deep pockets in Hollywood etc. When morality declines, countries fail. This is what Americans have to look forward to.

      • Your right to exercise your religious beliefs ends at the front door of your church. END OF STORY. I’m sure that’s VERY upsetting.

      • That is not what the Constitution says. The Constitution says we have freedom to exercise our religion without restraint. You are believing the liberal lies. Read the Constitution and the Federalist papers for the truth

      • Sex choice is not a right. It has nothing to do with rights. A person’s religion is a right. It is why this country was founded. To help protect a person’s right to worship and believe as they chose. And it was based on the Judeo-Christian Faith, not Muslim as Obama tries to push.

      • The law is clear. The judges are not complying with it. Get rid of the judges who do not render the decisions that are clearly implied in the books. Like, when did a person’s personal preference in the bedroom become more important that a person’s religious beliefs? The religious beliefs are protected, not the indiscriminate choice of two people trying to make their bedroom affairs the law of the land.

      • Are you claiming that these laws do not actually exist? I am curious about your home planet and its people.

      • The Constitution was initiated by religious people who did not want the government trying to dictate to them what some other group chose to believe. You believe in homosexuality. I do not. It is against my beliefs. And I cannot support it in any way as it would cause me to be just as guilty of that sin as you are. Thus, the constitution cannot force me to believe as you do.

      • Sex belongs in the bedroom. And therefore, it is not something that needs to be legislated. It is the gay community that is trying to force their chosen path onto the rest of us. And they know it goes against God and therefore would cause Christians to lose their free pass into eternity. So the question is, Is a man or woman’s personal choice in sex more important that preserving the rights of individual religious beliefs?

      • Your religious beliefs may not infringe on the rights of others. We do not live in a theocracy. The last 20 years or so should have made that clear to you by now.

      • No Joe, it is those who are trying to force their acts in the bedroom on the rest of us. No one is telling them how to live. But if their lifestyle is against our religion, we should not have to accept it or be involved in it in any way. This is a non-issue. And this is a country that protects religion from the state.

      • THere are a lot of restraunts that refuse service to people for any number of reasons. I think that the issue is, which is more valued, one’s faith or one’s personal choice of sexual partner.? If we say that a person can be prosecuted over sexual choices, then we have slid down the path towards Sodom and Gomorrah and the end is near.

  28. And for some reason we keep voting the people who listen to the extreme minority rather than to the majority. To clarify, their truck was broken into at their home which is located a good distance from the main road. The person(s) made sure to write hateful things on their windows.

  29. Making a cake for someone is one thing. But catering is a different issue. That means you are involved in the acceptance of their relationship. I don’t see how the government can keep pushing this idea that we have to accept something that God doesn’t. Clearly, the government is not staying out of religion.

    • I have to say I would be terribly afraid to push someone who doesnt want to serve me to do so. God knows what they will have done to my food. Nope, wouldnt want it….

  30. These people and those that support the homosexual life have made it their “god” to be worshiped by all or they will pay for not bowing down.

    • I have to disagree with the stance, “if it does not hurt anyone….”. The gay agenda is designed to hurt anyone that gets in their way. They feel they have been silenced for so long, it will be the party of the ages if they are allowed one foot ahead at a time. You might think that “little things” that happen won’t affect you, but it will – one way for another – directly or indirectly. If you are a Christian, you will see huge changes and persecution. One of the biggest being that Pastors and ministers cannot choose not to marry gays or let them use the church building without fear of arrest. The only reason my heart goes out to the gay society is that without God, their party time is limited to the breaths they take on this earth. We shouldn’t wish HELL on anyone. Just wish I knew how to reach them and get them to listen to the truth and reason.

      • “One of the biggest being that Pastors and ministers cannot choose not to
        marry gays or let them use the church building without fear of arrest.” LOL. Complete nonsense.

      • You are wrong. In the gay conference this last Summer, part of the agenda is to push churches and temples to be forced to perform gay marriages in their buildings. The ultimate agenda is to destroy marriage. The main speaker at the end said they want to move marriage out because she doesn’t want to have only one wife. She said we want to be able to have the benefits without all the binding ties. When they are talking to each other, I believe they are more honest. They all clapped when she said our ultimate goal is to destroy marriage

      • It was on TV last Summer. I believe it was the L&B conference. I was flipping channels and fell upon this, so decided to watch just to learn something. What I learned was not good.

      • You are wrong. I saw it. You can say what you like, but it is the truth. You can not say I am not telling the truth since you have no proof. You can have no proof since I saw it.

      • I am a full-time professional LGBT activist. I know EVERY convention and attend many of them every year. You, however, are a liar.

      • So you’re a full-time pervert, deviant, and sicko. Got it. Go crawl back under the rock where scum like you belongs.

      • It was on TV. Since you are an LGBT activist, you are the liar and trying to destroy marriage. You people are pushing your sick agenda, but you made a mistake having it broadcast. Dumb, and you are either complicit or not as much an activist as you claim. BTW, I don’t hate gays, I hate liars

      • Believe what you will, I saw what I saw and know what I know. You do not know what you are talking about. But I suspect you are complicit

      • The attempt of Sodom and Gomorrah was that all the people wanted to roam the streets and have sex at will with whomever they pleased, and that when the two male angels (there are no women angels) were found to be in the city, they as a mob tried to force themselves onto the angels. That is what is coming. People who have no other agenda than to do evil.

  31. I agree with the bakers and photographer even though I support the gay and lesbian community. The idea of opening places geared toward that conmunity is a great idea/solution!

  32. So much for all that gay and lesbian claptrap about just wanting to be left alone to do what they want in the privacy of their own bedrooms. This move against the bakers is transparently obvious for what it is, a contrivance by the homos to co-opt civil authority to enforce their demands for acceptance across all spheres of human enterprise.

    Bakers who do not wish to provide cakes for same-sex “marriage” should establish and adhere to a formula for wedding cakes–for both heterosexual and homosexual couples–that contain no written inscriptions and no little dinky plastic bride/groom(or bride/bride or groom/groom) statuettes. Uniformly applying this formula, on the basis of the baker’s decision of just what product he/she will cook can be done legally and without any cake decor that memorializes depravity.

  33. If we don’t put a stop to this s–t now, we are going to lose all of our freedom’s. Who the heck would want a wedding cake made by a company who told you up front that they could and would not make it for them. All the gays are worried about is pushing their lifestyle front and center and everyone else be damned. Hope the people of Portland support the bakers and tell the gays to go to hell.

    • Seventeen years ago the people of Oregon, through their elected representatives, banned businesses from discriminating against gay people. And then, three times, through the judges elected by the people of Oregon, these bakers lost their case.

      • Oregon judges are elected to six-year terms on a non-partisan ballot. (Meaning that they are not allowed to declare a party affiliation.) Oregon judges are subject to recall by public ballot and can also be removed by the state Supreme Court. In the event of mid-term judicial vacancies due to retirement, illness, or death, the remainder of the term is filled by the appointment of the governor. So appointed judges must then run in the next regularly scheduled election.

      • The right to throw a big hissy fit if some does not agree with thier lifestyle. The right to take that hissy fit to court raise a big stink with a bunch of money or probably paid for by our legal system. Influence normal kids to an unhealthy living environment. Freaks have no self respect or dignity. Now they can adopt children into this this confusing, unhealthy environment sick environment.Going out on the street in a parade and letting people know that you like to screw some dude in the ass or like some dude to do it to you is hilarious. You guys strictly carry and pass aids/ HIV at a crazy rate. Stupid lifestyle. Im sure billions of our taxdollars have been wasted trying to cure somthing that could have been controlled by changing your lifestyle. Yet you piss and moan at Christians who think what you are doing is a sin. It doesn’t say any where in the bible to duck your brother. But you want them to Chang thier lifestyle to accommodate your lousy lives. This is supposed to be America not a Fascist state ruled by people because of thier color sex preference or illegal immagration status etc. If you are a simple God fearing normal American American citizens you have no rights. YOU faggots should feel good you’ve infested our society degraded our constitution and bill of rights and made a mockery of good honest god fearing folks in this country. Well done bottom feaders(Author Unknown)

  34. Get the definition of marriage, changed from a covenant between a man and a woman and watch what the gay rights people do to the churches.

  35. We are repeating history in this country. This is what Nimrod did in the Tower of Babel and Antiochus Epiphanes did to the Jews during the 2nd century BC, attempted to force people to accept their agenda. Obama and his supporters are Nimrod in this case and they are shoving it down your throat whether you want it or not. But just as Thomas Jefferson said in the Declaration of Independence: “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” That day is coming…

  36. You people did not read the fine print in the Constitution.. Freedom of religion from the State and freedom of expression “unless the Gays want their way”.

  37. If what members of the gay community do does not cost me blood or money and they are over eighteen, I don’t care what they do. But it seems they want the whole world to know and approve. It is this in your face meaness that makes people dislike them. Why ruin the lives and livlyhood of others to make a political statement??

  38. WTF. There are equal rights laws in place that just need to be enforced rather than the agendas of gays, muslims, illegal immigrants, and other groups that CLAIM they want equal rights, but DEMAND specoal privilege. Piss off, all of you. I’m tired of special treatment for groups AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MAJORITY of hard-working, law abiding citizens. By the way, we want equal rights too, so kiss off.

    • EXACTLY ! Gay’s don’t want to be treated equally they want to be treated SPECIAL AND HAVE MORE RIGHTS THEN WE HAVE AND THAT’S GETTING CLEARER TO SEE EVERYDAY !

      • Looking through my copy of the Constitution (unabridged, of course) I fail to see the section that gives people the right NOT to be offended. If that is not the case, then they need to stop because their being offended by my me thoughts and beliefs is offensive to me.

      • Is Christianity a sexual orientation? Actually, Gays are influenced by satan, and Christians have the Holy Spirit that helps them. All of us are born with afflictions, or issues that we must deal with sometimes on a daily basis. Depending on how loyal we were to God, is whether our affliction is severe or weak. I would say, Gays were probably those who rebelled against God, and that is why they are so willing to try to destroy those who are His. But hey, God is the winner. I read the back of the book, and there is no sex in heaven.

      • The right to throw a big hissy fit if some does not agree with thier lifestyle. The right to take that hissy fit to court raise a big stink with a bunch of money or probably paid for by our legal system. Influence normal kids to an unhealthy living environment. Freaks have no self respect or dignity. Now they can adopt children into this this confusing, unhealthy environment sick environment.Going out on the street in a parade and letting people know that you like to screw some dude in the ass or like some dude to do it to you is hilarious. You guys strictly carry and pass aids/ HIV at a crazy rate. Stupid lifestyle. Im sure billions of our taxdollars have been wasted trying to cure somthing that could have been controlled by changing your lifestyle. Yet you piss and moan at Christians who think what you are doing is a sin. It doesn’t say any where in the bible to duck your brother. But you want them to Chang thier lifestyle to accommodate your lousy lives. This is supposed to be America not a Fascist state ruled by people because of thier color sex preference or illegal immagration status etc. If you are a simple God fearing normal American American citizens you have no rights. YOU faggots should feel good you’ve infested our society degraded our constitution and bill of rights and made a mockery of good honest god fearing folks in this country. Well done bottom graders. (Author Unknown)

      • So to sum up, there are no rights that gay people have that Christians do not. Thanks for agreeing with me.

      • Actually, they are being influenced by satan, in that he wants to see anyone who loves God suffer. So, this is just the beginning. Satan hasn’t shown up yet, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t be put under the affliction of evil. Pray for their souls, because they are the ones God will take out of this world. We are here to be a witness to the world for GOD.

    • Straight people flaunt their lifestyle every day. Why, just this morning I saw two of them HOLDING HANDS right there in the post office. Why do they have to keep shoving their agenda down our throats?

    • There was another bakery on the same block that volunteered to make the cake, but the gay couple just wanted to punish the Christian bakers. The Bakers were very kind and explained and offered to help find another bakery for the odd couple. But instead the gay couple went out of their way to make life miserable for this couple. They had their friends picket and chased away their customers. Order cakes etc and not show up to pick them up. This couple had run this bakery for like 25 years and this one nasty gay couple have ruined their lives. These are the same people who say, we just want what you have. No, they want to destroy anyone who says no to them and our gov, is helping them

      • They just give all the gay community a very bad name. I’ve come across gay people that I just loved and know they would NEVER act this way. So very sad. TAmmy did the community come out to support the bakery? ARe they ok now, or still under attack?

      • They lost their bakery and are having a hard time making ends meet. The bakery was their income. They are very strict in their religious views and will not go against their beliefs. I also have gay fiends, and they are not political, but these people who push for every body to accept their lifestyle are making it hard on normal gay people.

      • OH no!! I pray God blesses them for doing what was right. I agree, this couple makes it harder for all gay people. I hope and pray this couple gets back on their feet again.

      • No, the couple went bankrupt and lost their bakery. A bed and breakfast also lost their license to do business by a gay couple who sued them and a judge who agreed. Too many liberal judges making up their own laws and case law is the pits. We need to keep to the normal laws and stop changing laws to fit case law.

  39. I don’t have anything against gay couples, more power to them. My Christian beliefs are that it is wrong, but they are also not to be judged by me. What I would have a problem with in terms of making a cake or being a photographer especially, is the uncomfortableness I would experience while doing so. That would be my main reason to politely deny any request to take part in any type of gay wedding. How can the government come in and make you do something for one group of people because they have their “rights”, but are violating your rights of choice by making something that is most likely going to make you feel anxious and uncomfortable something you can’t say you don’t want to do? Can I then sue the state and the couple for duress? Smh.

  40. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell who does not have the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

    Rev. 13:16-17

  41. would be more interesting if the gay couple had gone to a muslim owned bakery of muslim photographer….how would THAT have played out in the government???
    Something to ponder….

      • So what if the Muslim bakery said, I’m sorry I can’t do a cake for a lesbian couple as Allah would not allow me to do it. Would the couple sue the Muslims or just move on?

      • New York is one of the 21 states that do not permit businesses to refuse gay couples, so technically, yes, the lesbian couple could file a complaint. The bakery in Brooklyn, however, is a regular bread/pastry shop and since they don’t offer wedding cakes to any customer, no gay person could legally demand one.

    • We would have never heard about it…and it would not have made the papers. Islam is the only protected religion in America. Muslims somehow get to do as they please and exercise their religious power with freedoms that astounds Christians. As a teacher, I’m retired now….. I was forbidden from using any religious depictions in my classroom during Christmas or Easter and yet our school had to provide a special private room for Muslim students to Pray in. Kids who wanted to have a school based Bible club were not allowed. However, Muslims were allowed to have their club. My Jewish student boys were not allowed to wear their traditional head covering…yet black Muslims were allowed to wear theirs…on top of Muslim girls being allowed to cover their traditional head scarves. When you or I go to get our Drivers License made…we are not allowed to wear a hat. (Rightfully so…as it conceals your looks.) However, our state just passed a law that Muslim women can wear their head covering. Separation of Church and State? Our gov’t uses that phrase If your a Christian….However, if your Muslim….the American government nearly falls over on itself to make sure they protect and include the Islamic faith within our gov’t institutions!

  42. Why would you want someone who doesn’t want to make your wedding cake and doesn’t celebrate the sentiment to make your cake; to help you appreciate your special moment? Seems like people need to learn to build a bridge and get over it. Your “win” is not contributing to their bottom line. Fine a new baker, find a new photographer, grow up and exercise your consumer rights to tell people what you think, not shop there, and support freedom. You want the freedom to make any choice you see fit, i.e. marrying same sex, but you do not want others to have those same freedoms if they put a hiccup in your day. These people should be ashamed of their childishness tattle-telling. (b/c really that’s all it boils down to)

    • Because gayness is normal and by God, you better agree with them. Sometimes seems they are not comfortable in their own skin. Makes me miss the early days of the movement when they wanted “government out of the bedroom.”

  43. Don’t tell me these Bakers don’t have the right to bake or not bake. Just who’s rights are being violated? One cannot measure the length’s power hungry villains and other criminals will travel to promote their evils like rabid dogs on a hunt.

  44. Hateful vindictiveness on the part of the gay community to force their “wants” on others!
    Bakers/photographers have to do like the other services, and toss out an exorbitant price when they don’t want to do the job..or suddenly find a scheduling conflict that prohibits them from doing the job.
    It’s done all the time and it beats selling your religious convictions short!
    Let the gays try to prove a negative…since they don’t give a hoot about your “wants”.

  45. Geesh, does it ever end!?!?! Now I know fully what the phrase “Give ’em an inch they’ll take a mile” really truly means!!! Freedom of Religion is trampled on for each of these cases but yet the “discrimination” is what wins out!? GTFOH that is so ass backwards….kinda like the rest of this administration!! See what happens when you elect a black liar into office? Goes to hell in a hand basket. I wish someone would put this moron out of OUR misery already so we can repair the damage that has been done! All of these liberals preach tolerance and equality….UNTIL you disagree with them and then its “OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!” Time. UGH and they wonder why people think they’re leapers….hmmmm can’t imagine wwwwhhhhyyyyyyy!

      • Yes, we know who’s site this is. What does that have to do with a liar? The two men are total opposites and have nothing in common

      • There are blacks–and persons of all minority races–who feel that they have special rights. I believe this, more than the fact that Obummer is black, was the point. Most minorities have those who claim to speak for all of their minority–but very seldom do.

    • Biggest problem is some people no longer see it as Freedom OF Religion, but as Freedom FROM Religion. Again, methinks they need to READ the Constitution. Pretty self explanatory if you ask me. Then again, I am the product of a public school education.

    • That’s actually been addressed in the New York state courts and the answer is “no.” No restaurant can be forced to serve something that’s not on their menu. Similarly, you can’t walk into McDonald’s and demand a beer. Or walk into Burger King and demand a pizza. Etc etc. I believe the NYS precedent was set when a vegan/vegetarian demanded that a restaurant serve a certain dish without meat and the chef refused.

  46. if I owned a wedding-related business and was contacted for services from gays/lesbians, I’d just say I’m busy – if they persisted, I’d do a crappy job for them.

    • Me, too. I would enthusiasticly make a cake and charge them big bucks. Then, do the worst job. It wouldn’t be pretty and if they complained I just give their money back. Say I;m sorry and move on. I wouldn’t let them know that I did it on purpose. That way they cannot sue you.

      • Technically, nobody has been sued for refusing to serve gay customers. The only legal actions are complaints to the local human rights commission (if one exists) or complaints to the state division that licenses businesses. The press often reports such actions as “suing” because the public understands that concept, but in fact they are all discrimination complaints. Lawsuits can result in punitive and damages and the payment of legal costs. Discrimination complaints can merely result in a fine or revocation of license to operate.

      • But they are still Law suits! The complainers may not get any money but the Defendants could be punished by fines or other penalties!

    • 1st – if you are refusing for Christian beliefs then you have a moral dilemma: I’m
      busy would be a lie and a bad job would not only reflect on you but on the whole Christian community..No the only thing to do is to be honest and refuse on principle.

      • You know I think racial tension would less of a problem today if we hadn’t responded to bigotry by telling whites what they can and can’t do with their own lunch counter.

        A community is a group of people who share common culture, norms, rules, laws. You cannot have one community among different groups of people who each have their own unique rights, privileges, and rules.

        When the Sexual Revolution trolls can find a hundred ways to desecrate Jesus Christ in ever more hateful ways – smearing Him and His mother with bodily wastes and vermin and so on – but Christians are vilified as “haters” for not wanting to participate in a ceremony that violates their beliefs, there is no way for the two groups to be friends. And that is the whole point: the trolls want to make it a crime to be Christian, and they wage this war openly – in the name of “tolerance”.

      • Having morals and integrity =bigotry ? You must of found that one in your biased pleasing study 7yrs ago.

      • You mean hypocrisy. Morals and integrity would keep one from judging another person. Morals and integrity promote understanding. Go back to morals and integrity school.

      • You gotta defend yourself against people who troll.

        If they’re announcing themselves as gays or lesbians, then it’s safe to bet they’re trolling for lawsuits.

  47. Our forefathers wanted to make sure that the minority in this country had a voice. What they didn’t plan on happening is the minority ruling the majority…which has become the rule…not the exception here in America. The gay community “claims” to be passive. More like passive aggressive in their tactics to be “heard”. I don’t care how PC our gov’t tries to make us….there are those of us who think this lifestyle is wrong and will be more than happy…to pay the cost…to stand up for Christian beliefs. What the gay community would like you to think is that we are “haters”. We are not….we just don’t want to support what we have been taught. It isn’t just Christianity that speaks out against this lifestyle but every major religion around the world… teaches that it is wrong. It doesn’t mean however, that I agree with beating someone for being gay…or harming their property. Their is a revolution coming when those of us who work hard, have Christian values..that this country was founded on.. rise up and take this country bak

    • Save my “handel” as I am one more soldier to help in “TAKEING OUR COUNTRY BACK”!, Just make sure message goes out to form our contingent, I’m IN!!! The sooner the BETTER, before we lose our “REPUBLIC”!!!

      • One to the reasons why….in the Bible when God gave victory to Jews in certain battles he also commanded that everyone be killed. The reason? So that the soldiers would not be tempted to participate in sinful behavior such as the raping of women and children. Mohammed…(Your spelling was a little off.) wasn’t lead by the spirit of God but his own sinful desires for riches and power. He did not order the killing of everyone in whatever town he conquered. Your right…he did rape little boys and little girls. How is this related exactly to the subject the article was discussing? Being gay is a completely different issue than having sex with children. Gay people do not have sex with children. Anyone who has sex with children, no matter what their sexual orientation……. is a sick wretch! Mohammed included. I find him repulsive and the fact that Muslims like to hide this little tidbit of history. Again I ask….what does your sentence have to do with anything? Well Good luck and God Bless!

      • The Muslim faith does detest gays. Don’t you remember during the Iraq war….a group of enlisted army personnel took photos of the men they had in prison? The men were Muslims who were being tortured (Minimally if you know anything about warfare tactics.) One of the mental torture tactics was to have them make a human pyramid….naked with each of them in compromising positions with their Muslim “brothers”. The reason given….for the punishment of our military members and such strong opposition to this type of warfare…and I dare say revulsion to this type of torture …..was the fact that Muslim men are so pure in faith that being in a questionable position (gay) with other men….was just the ultimate worse thing (Supposed…) to happen to a Muslim Man as the Koran is specific in its teachings that one man putting his dick in another’s pooh hole is against Allah and you will not go to heaven for your gay lifestyle. In turn we punished these army personnel whom were told to do these torture tactics. These were enlisted personnel. Hardly the people who were calling the shots of torture tactics. Mohammed himself considered the gay lifestyle repulsive. However, as you pointed out….and correctly so….he did enjoy the bottom of a child (The sex of the child made no difference for him.) for his sexual pleasure.

  48. So let me get this straight, this business says, no I’m sorry we can’t do that. So the couple sues the business to MAKE them do it?? Why not just move onto someone else who would take their money??? What if the couple said, we want cupcakes for our wedding cake and the business didn’t do cupcakes? Do we now sue the bakery for not doing cupcakes?? I think this is the homosexuality community’s way of revenge against Christians. So petty.

    • That is exactly right! We choose to have a hetero relationship over a gay one or to be celibate! You choose to have a gay one! What don’t you Idiots understand?

      • As a nurse, I know some people do not choose. They have the genetics makeup of the opposite sex and sometimes nature makes mistakes. But the largest majority either have had a terrible event in their lives (rape, incest etc) or have fallen into it by experimenting or have a mental problem. So except the few who have medical reasons, the rest have chosen, for one reason or another. We still need to love the sinner even tho we abhor the sin. BTW, the gays I have known have been some of the most fun people on Earth.

      • I agree Tammytnt, We must hate the Sin and not the Sinner. We must try to teach the lost the errs of their ways so that they can find Salvation and turn from their Sinful Life. I have also know some really nice Gay people, but most Gay people these days have turned to being Hate-filled people who wish to push their lifestyle onto those who want nothing to do with it. We have the Right to want to keep what we believe is wrong and dirty away from ourselves and our Children. We are each given our own Lot in life by God and will be Judged by God on what we do and how we live our life. God wants us to reach the Lost and that is what Most Christians are doing, We should not be Hated for caring!

      • When people are so full of indecency, immorality and sin, they can not bare the truth of the gospel. It is like talking to Satan and telling him to turn to God. He will never do it, because it is not what his sinful ways want. At a point, people are so full of their sin, they can no longer understand or recognize good from evil. We can pray for them, but it is up to them to chose the right. We all sin, but when you repent of your sin, you are forgiven. Unfortunately, most will not turn away from their sin when they are this deep in it. We still need to love them and treat them with love and hope they will turn to God and away from this lifestyle. I grew up around many gays and truly they were some of the best people, but I have grown up and realize how unhappy they were.

      • Niether! Gay males have a broken x chromosone. Proven by DNA science 7 years ago. That is not a choice, not a disease.

      • No, there are a few that have problems that genetics caused. There is no gay gene. There are documented cases such as the boy who’s genitals did not drop and was raised as a girl. He was in his 20’s when he went in for a surgery and they found he was a boy. This kind of thing happens rarely, but does happen. There is no evidence that there is any physical reason for gay behavior. Hopefully with enough love, they can make the transition. No one should ever harm someone who is different in any way, be it gay, disabled, overweight etc.

      • 1. Threadomancy… Just say no.
        2. Anecdotal cases do not disprove an underlying concept.

        If there is no gay gene, then it is a mental illness or a choice.

      • Mental illness or choice, no one has a right to do anything to them. That also goes the other way. They should not be able to push their perversion on others, ie the baker, the photographer etc. There is no gay gene that has been found. Scientists have done extensive research and at this point there has been ” not even a smidgeon” of a hint of anything genetic. But who knows in the future. I also do not believe the lifestyle should be promoted.

      • It is no different than fornication. If not married, heterosexual sex is also a sin outside of marriage. That also is a difficult choice.

      • That is exactly right Pam, sex outside of a Marriage ordained by God is Fornication but Gay people do not believe in God, the God of Heaven. Sin is something we are born into and it is impossible to live without Sinning but after We accept Jesus Christ as our Savior we are forgiven and we are told to Sin no more. Although that is impossible we must try!

    • God makes us all with afflictions that we must overcome. When we put ourselves first, then we have pushed God out of our lives. So yes, it is a choice. You chose to put yourself first over God.

      • It is a common misconception that God causes these things. God told us to multiply, and he made sure we followed the order by giving us a strong desire to do so. Satan was the one who twisted our desires into a sinful thing that seeks perversion. We must choose who we obey.

      • It is not a misconception to know that God did create us in the flesh, which He has already declared He was sorry about. You can chose to believe how you want, but the Bible speaks prolifically about His tests, and many fail because they chose to believe that GOD doesn’t cause anything. Satan can influence, but he has no power to do anything that God doesn’t give him. We must chose who our father is, God or satan.

    • Yes, we have chosen a lifestyle that by nature produces a family. We don’t need single moms who think Obama is their baby daddy. We do not need couples who are biologically incapable of child bearing demanding that they should influence education.
      If you want to be gay, that is your choice. If you want a wedding then find people who agree with that idea to support it. I am not going to throw rocks or call you names, but I want no part your wedding, You are not much different from the slut in my eyes; except I can empathise more with her. Honestly I think you are a bigger threat to the morality of this nation.

      • This is a story that was first reported several months ago. I am sorry, I do not nor never will equate discrimination. I understand color and I do understand religion some people do keep the sabbath holy and do not work.

        I do not understand why a group of people that are trying to be accept in mainstream society turn around and make their cause involved in a ugly confrontation. The country is littered with bakeries. Why push this business, who politely refused on religious grounds into court and losing their business. It just proves that radicals are never satisfied until they have ground everyone under their heel. It is their way or the highway.

        To have the belief that the homosexual act is forbidden in the Bible, that is called standing for your convictions. They objected on religious conviction. That should have been respected by a gay couple that are trying to gain respect.

        To have baked that cake is, to them, a sin by disagreeing in their mind but condoning it with their service . Remember we will have the mark in our hand or forehead. In other words we will disagree in our mind but hold our condemnation of sin and go along, which will put it in your hand. Or you will agree with it and it will be in the forehead.

        What a scary thing that God is being slowly deleted from our lives. These people are being persecuted for their beliefs. We all will face the same choice soon I believe.

      • What a retarded answer! You CHOSE nothing! God made you to serve a purpose for HIM, including gays! NOBODY chooses to be straight or gay!

      • We choose to follow temptation or not. God did not create people as gay, that was a lure of Satan. Common mistake. God is only good.

      • Whether you choose to have desires is a very different thing from what you choose to do with your desires.

        Pedophilia is an orientation too, but pedophiles (wisely!) don’t go around demanding the right to behave any way they want, and you MUST approve. Because that would be stupid. Well, it’s stupid when gays do it, too. Having a desire is not a blank check to behave any way you want.

    • Nobody is discriminating against anyone based on them having a “gay gene”.

      They are discriminated against because of what they choose to do with their desires, not for having their desires.

      I don’t care if they want to live their life as gay. That has nothing to do with the question of what marriage is. In fact, I wouldn’t even care if they wanted to get married, if they’d stop trying to force false equivalencies between what they have and what marriage is all about. They might be able to form life partnerships – for the sake of argument I’ll grant their life partnerships are equal to any other – but marriage is more than that; marriage is procreative, and comes with expressly procreative benefits. Gays insist that marriage is NOT procreative – but then they turn around and demand the right to share the procreative benefits of marriage with each other (right down to forcing their unfortunate kids to pretend that “having two mommies” is just like having an intact family), instead of just being honest and sharing those procreative benefits with the person they actually procreate with, the way honest stepfamilies are expected to do.

      It’s the lies, the covetousness, the blurring (or outright destruction) of boundaries, and the attack on traditional values (and sacraments) that is the real trouble here. They just don’t want us to be able to hold our kinship bonds – or marital bonds – as sacred. That’s lifestyle, not “genes”.

  49. Where is the business’ right to refuse service to anyone? You see that in taverns, why not a bakery? And why on earth would anyone feel that they have a RIGHT to have a wedding cake made? The only right they have regarding their cake is to shop around and find a baker who is willing to do it. I’m sure that there are one or two gay bakers who wouldn’t be offended by the idea.

    Private businesses, privately owned apartments, etc., should be able to decide for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER to whom they wish to provide their service. Only government offices should be held to these ridiculous anti-discrimination laws that they keep cramming down our throats. If I own a boat rental service, I will be the one to judge to whom I rent. If I own an apartment complex, again, I will judge who will be the best tenants. It’s the right of ownership to decide with whom to share.

    • I agree, but I would go further.

      First, the public accommodations law is stupid and should be ruled unconstitutional. Nobody should be told how to use their own resources, especially their own labor.

      Secondly, they weren’t discriminating against the couple. The event itself was the problem – the couple had been served before. That distinction matters. A kosher Jew, or a vegetarian (or a kosher Jew who also happens to be a vegetarian) who freely serves people of all races and religions – but refuses to cook double cheeseburgers – is not the equivalent of someone who specifically refuses to serve a particular group because they’re that group. These people were not refused service because they were gay; they were refused service because they wanted to baker to do something that violated the baker’s beliefs. The action was the problem, not the people.

      Thirdly, even if the above two points were not true, there is a difference between serving people at lunch counters vs. entering into a contract. People should be free to refuse contracts for any reason. There is no “right” to force someone into a contract; contracts are not “open to the public”.

  50. I bet if the businesses that refused were muslim no one would have sued or been found guilty. Funny how these so called liberals never mess with muslims who are WAY less tolerant than Christians.

  51. Seems to me that it is going to a VERY SPECIAL COUPLE then agree to do it at a VERY SPECIAL PRICE! I mean we do special cakes for special things all of the time. Will it be worth your time to do it and get the money, a lot of money? If they want it that badly then they will have to pay the price. Don`t do a bad or stupid job but make it really worth it. Believe me you will not be labeled a bad bakery but a truthful one and honest one. Isn`t your time worth that much? Be the Christian you are and do the right thing. Just pray over the cake asking God to forgive them their sin of homosexuality and as I said, if they will pay the price you ask then sell it to them. You do have the right and are within the law to charge what you think is fair for your business. If they sue you, then you will have the money to pay for the suit.

    • I say cake makers, florist, and photographers are artist. Let them work without inspiration. Nothing like a bunch of headless pictures or a lopsided cake to make a point.

      • Then they would be sued. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

        These people probably knew the owners beliefs and wanted to prove a point.

        Beyond sad really. There are plenty of businesses out there. A business should have right to turn down business for any reason…except race.

      • The problem is that gays like to troll.

        People should stop putting up with trolling. Gays who want to put their kids in Catholic schools, force Christians to work for them, etc. are not sincere, they are trolling and should be called out on it – LOUDLY and with as much shaming as possible.

    • Yes, $10,000.00 per layer of the cake sounds about right. They might be able to force us to bake the cakes, but they don’t have the right to set the prices for a “special event”! And if they are willing to “pop” about $30K to 50K for a cake, then bake the thing, and give the money to charity.

  52. I would charge them a premium price for an out of the ordinary wedding and make it clear that I would donate every penny from any gay wedding I service to help support a pro heterosexual group.

  53. We have the rights to chooose who and what we will do in this Country and the likes of what has happened was just a purpose to get their gay faces in the news!

  54. Civil Rights has all to do with color,race, and male and female…..not what and whoyou prefer in the bedroom…this is out of control and it all should be stopped. But lawyers and law makers make money over this crap!

    • Yep, you got the money hungry big rig lawyers out there just waiting for the so called civil rights violations to happen so they can get their “clients” the attention they want and need. I’m sick of hearing these ACLU thugs and their left-wing progressive lies!!

  55. I would do a rotten job and be prepared to pay the fine….but they would know in advance…that their “most important day” would be ruined.If it was photographs, I would have 500 pictures of the floor, if it was the cake…it would be one huge cross with “scripture befitting my belief” on it. Don’t tell me I HAVE to cater to you!

  56. What about the Civil Rights of the bakers? Is this the only bakery in the town or is someone in serious need of attention. Give me a break!

  57. This Nation has been destroyed by the progressive left wing Communists. The First Amendment to the Constitution which guarantee’s freedom OF Religion has been bastardized where killing babies and unnatural sex take precedent over God. We constantly hear how the American people should have recognized Hitler before he murdered millions of innocent Jews and terrorized Eastern Europe and stopped him. But now we sit here on our butts as the progressive left in this Nation murders 55 million innocent babies and advances unnatural-inhuman sex over God our Creator. They sit back and watch as the Obama government persecutes Christians and trashes their constitutional Rights. Another Holocaust is coming and Obama will be the next Hitler. Without our Constitutional Rights, we are surely doomed.

  58. How about the other side of the coin? ? ? ? Doesn’t the ignored fact that gay marriages are illegal in Oregon come into consideration or is Oregon more gay than we know about. . . . . . . .

  59. This comes as no surprise. Once anti-sodomy laws were done away with then the LGBT community and their allies really dug in. Unfortunately, what has happened to these two businesses is just the tip of the iceberg and the damage is irreparable.

  60. There was a letter from 7 state attorney general’s offices making an attempt to reverse this, as it violated the Federal Supreme Court’s “core values,” ruling, that Christians have the legal right to adhere to religious “core values,’ including Romans chapter 1. Even if gay marriage had been legal there, they can not violate the Christian business owner’s Christian civil rights, freedom of religion, and rights to adhere to “core values.”
    Carrie Geren Scoggins Political Newsletter Bible Prophecy Times Edition Updates: [Facebook pages, blogspot.com, youtube channel and playlists]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6pJiW3iiLo&feature=share&list=PLzW-_vWh8xs3tTv_gB088WDrDcKX2_PHi

  61. They are evil & want to justify their lifestyles. It is not of God according to the Bible. I have a RIGHT to believe that. They can go ahead and go against that. But don’t stop me from my beliefs.

    • Read the New Testament again and tell me what it says in there about judging others. Then come back and tell me why you one across as a terrible Christian no one should listen to.

      • judging that’s an excuse. So if I kill somebody no one can say that that’s wrong? the Bible also says that if you see somebody sinning and you say nothing you will be held accountable. The blood is in your hands Ezekiel 28.

      • Judging is judging. You can call a rose a rose or a plant or a flower and it will always remain the same thing.

      • Perhaps you do not understand what CHrist was speaking about. He was trying to make us understand that we cannot put ourselves in the position of God. However, in that context, we are to discern when someone is doing something wrong, and to warn them of what God says about staying in sin. It is not judging, but discernment for us to avoid persons who chose to stay in sin. And it is a requirement for us to not accept or be party to anyone’s sin. Paying for it through our taxes, is the same as acceptance of that sin. Making laws that approve of it, makes us party to the sin. Thus, we do have an obligation to fight against those who would make us part of their sins.

  62. I am waiting for the gay couple to go to a Muslim baker or photographer….They will decline them also….think ACLU or the couple will sue …LOL…think not

    • I’m waiting for an anti-“gay marriage” organization to hire a gay baker to make cakes with lots of quotes from Leviticus and Romans.

      • When they say tolerance they don’t mean Christians. Christians aren’t people. Rights don’t apply to them.

      • As they shouldn’t. I still hope the persecution flips one of these days and Christians are the ones being judged for their outrageous beliefs, behaviors and the damage they’ve done to humanity for the promotion of their insane ideas.

      • Mattma,
        Yes, because love your neighbor and pray for those who persecute you is such an insane idea. Having a heart full of charity for those who suffer through poverty or disease is such an insane idea. Giving hope to those who have none is such an insane idea.
        What are you smoking, man, and where can I buy some?

      • Thank you for Exhibit A.

        Christian bigotry – not a desire for “equality” – is what we are seeing here, folks.

        Christians are the reason the ancient Romans didn’t develop space flight and nuclear power, and they must be punished for the fact that humanity doesn’t like sexual deviant people with gender issues.

  63. Proofread before posting please. Finding obvious gross factual errors in an article heavily impacts the authors credibility in a negative way.

  64. Now why would anyone want to piss off a cook?
    Was it a yellow or chocolate cake?
    Just like pissing off a baggage handler you maybe going too Hawaii but your luggage is going too Alaska.

  65. Here in Oregon we have a governor who lives with his girl friend, aborts thousands of babies every year and allows our elderly to die a slow death thru his coverup health care plan imported from the left coast. There is no integrity within the government or halls of justice in this state. We have lost our moral compass from the first wave of californians forty yrs ago…hang on Texas the rats are fleeing the fire they started again.

  66. This is getting ridiculous! I’ll be blunt, a good majority of Christians view homosexuality as a sin. Such a request is asking them to go against their religious beliefs and infringing on their right to practice their religion. We are not a free country anymore. More and more were only free to live our lives and practice our beliefs as long as they meet the approval of the politically correct Liberals, and that is not freedom.

    • Why does everything have to be the result of sinister machinations of “the liberals”? Can’t we all just accept the reality that religions are becoming more archaic and outdated each day? The world is changing, people aren’t afraid of the sun or divine retribution because we’re more intelligent, and know that floods aren’t caused by an angry old man in the sky (well, most of us know anyway). Gay rights and the victories they’re achieving are just one sign of a world getting fed up with people using 2000 year-old stories to tell us how to live. Grow up and stop hiding behind god to explain your bigotry. If you don’t support gay rights that’s fine, but being a Christian doesn’t change the fact that you’re a bigot.

      • So well put Matt. Christians touting the Bible and judging others is NOT Christian. They are hypocrites, which, by the way, God says he despises.

      • Davey, Davey, Davey, if you’re going to quote do not judge, at least understand what it means. Saying that the Bible says something is wrong is not judging a person or claiming to be better than that person. It is saying that GOD has already judged the ACTION and found it to be a sin. In other words, “do not judge” has nothing to do with this debate.

      • The Bible is the holy book of Christians. You are judging Christians based on Christian values, yet are nothing but an atheist.

      • Will you get your pea brain out of here??? I went to Christian schools. You dont need to recite scriptures. However, you do need someone to explain them to you.

      • Matt,
        Care to tell us what rights are being denied to gays? Or is it just that they’re not granted -special- rights under the law?

      • Dude just because sciencr explains floods and weather doesnt mean that a divine creator isnt real. Physics and science doesnt explain the true nature of god. Nothing will, its impossible seeing how he made this realm and we are bound to it. Physics doesnt explain god, its explains god made this universe and physics its just here to explai how and why it works. But because we know lightning isnt zues made that makes god made up? And youre the bigot. Calling a person a name just to get a rise. Just because you dont believe in god doesnt mean you have to go and spread hate. Lets do this, lets put you on death row for a crime, and put a video camera in.your room and see how long it takes you to go against what you said break down, cry and pray for help. Pretty quickly seeing how you talk here. The “tougher” ones are always the ones to break down first. Its sad that weak minded people like yourself actually try and give input on human activities. To bad youre brain dead and the points you make are points a third grader would bring up to their daddy. Sad that you take it as science facts that god must be fake cus we know how it floods. With that kind of logic, you should of killed yourself a long ime ago. Dont sit here and bitch about how other people stand up for beliefs when you get your info from an Eye witness picture book. Also dont reply, i didnt get my degrees in physics and biochemistry to listen to some BIGOT little boy spew science facts like its his original thought. Two graduate degrees in science and actuallu science backs up the existence of GOD. Dont believe me look up Hoyle. Then youll understand before you go spitting nonsense that heard from one of your idiot friends, thinking its factual.

      • A little lesson in Christianity: the disciples were a mix of regular, hated, wealthy, and poor people. Not snide, angry liberals who love to go around calling people idiots.

      • Not hiding, am
        grown up, and not only are the amazing things I see in nature everyday along
        with other so many things that can’t be explained any other way enough proof to
        me that there has to be a God, Jesus has worked miracles in my own life and
        without a doubt I know he is real. I hope someday you will as well. As for my
        original comment, I will say it again people should not have to go against
        their religious values and I don’t think that makes me a bigot. I looked up the
        definition of a bigot-a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other
        people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates
        or refuses to accept the members of a particular group. Hmm, why I don’t agree
        with their lifestyle, I happen to have friends that are gay. I don’t dislike the sinner and am guilty of
        sin myself, it is the sin I don’t like. From your writing, however, I’m not so sure
        that you don’t fall under this definition in your view toward Christians.
        Furthermore, who is telling who how to live in this article and also your
        comments toward me? They refused to serve at a gay wedding because of their
        religion. Why didn’t they go somewhere else that didn’t have a problem with
        this? I’ll tell you why, because those, such as yourself, are trying to tell us
        how to live.

  67. So your argument amounts to, “Ewwww, sex that’s different than the sex I and my friends like!” Wow, that’s adorable. I mean, if Christians weren’t sending missionaries to Africa and Russia to spread the hatred and fear of gay people, and those missionaries weren’t influencing multiple countries to create anti-gay laws that are resulting in the fining, beating, imprisonment, torture, and execution of gay people, you would just be such darling fuddie-duddies! I bet you’re all at least 60 here, right?

    • and Rita …you equate killing and torturing people with a wedding cake ? (which by the way , NO REAL Christian would ever be part of ) If I were a painter and either a homosexual or heterosexual couple wanted me to paint them naked or in a sex act and I told them “no , I am Christian and cannot based on my beliefs” is that acceptable in your books or should gov’t hold a gun to me head whilst I do the painting ???

      • Shes just trying to pass the blamr of hate onto others. Shes the type that cannot accept responsibility for her actions. I dont know of any missionaries going around with the agenda of spreading hate and getting the LEADERS of other countries to pass hateful laws. Youve lost touch with reality rita.

    • Rita there is no such thing being done by Missionaries from any religion and your accusations that they are doing this is ridiculous. I will go so far as to say you are as fake as your fake name……

    • Get over yourself, Rita. I’m 26, a millenial, and I feel the same way that a lot of the people here do. The argument here is whether someone should be forced to support an action or cause, or participate in an event which violates their freedom of religion (1st amendment that you left-wingers love to tout so mich). And by the way, missionaries are ambassadors of goodwill. They often risk their lives in order to give people hope who otherwise have none, and the homosexual agenda is rarely, if ever, part of their mission profile. You like to talk about hatred and fear, but all you’ve said here amounts to ad hominem attack. In other words, you need to take the plank out of your own eye before trying to remove the splinter from your brother’s.

    • Rita what government granted privilege do heterosexuals have that homosexuals don’t? If you want to use marriage you have to remember marriage is sanctified by God not the government. The government only sanctifies a civil union for the purpose of taxation. Everyone knows that gays don’t believe in God or Jesus because they say you are an abomination and I agree.

  68. One way you may get around the nonsense of being sued because you don’t believe in same sex weddings; charge an enormous amount to do whatever it is they want your skills to do.

  69. Do the courts believe the Jewish baker must make the cake requested with the swastika on it (can’t “discriminate against ‘race’ or national origin”)? Do the courts believe the homosexual t-shirt owner must make the requested “God hates fags” shirts (remember can’t “discriminate” against someone because of their religion)? When a Satan worshiper comes in a bakery and requests a cake with an inscription that gives some praise to the devil, the bakery owner (Christian, Muslim, or Jewish) must make that cake? After all, No business has a right to “discriminate” against someone based on religion (church of Satan).

    Is this what the founders had in mind with the Constitution and the First Amendment?

    The Constitution says, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all MEN are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator…” This is the part of the Constitution that is the basis for Civil Rights; more specifically, “all men (PEOPLE) are created equal. This is why even if a PERSON (black, white, Arab, Asian, etc.) is offensive to you, our Constitution mandates you treat that person equally even if your belief is that they are not equal. In other words our Constitution trumps some people’s religion that believes others outside their religion are infidels (second class citizens) and do not deserve equal rights. This is why certain religions are not compatible with our Constitution–but that’s a subject for another day.

    HOWEVER, what our Constitution does NOT say is “all ACTIONS or CAUSES are equal, that all ACTIONS and CAUSES are endowed by their Creator.” Therefore, civil rights do not apply to actions/ causes. The business owners that denied service to a black PERSON because the PERSON was offensive were violating the Constitution because the offense was coming from the PERSON, not the work being requested or for a CAUSE that is offensive. The business owners that deny service to a person because the WORK being requested or the CAUSE (e.g. A WEDDING CEREMONY) for the work being requested is offensive is not violating the Constitution because the offense is coming from a CAUSE not a PERSON.

    I could see the legitimacy of the complaint if the homosexual just came in for a birthday cake or cupcakes and the owner screamed, “Get out of here, I don’t serve queers!”
    But that is not what is going on here. Christian bakery owners, photographers, and soon pastors are being forced to perform services to a CAUSE that is HIGHLY
    offensive to their values. Life and MARRIAGE is sacred to Christians and we do not want to contribute in any way shape or form to the celebration of desacralizing what is still sacred to us. Like the early settlers that left England, Christian business owners do not want to be forced to do anything that violates their conscience.

  70. you guys are two ticks behind Canada. The gay lobby and Human right tribunals have effectively stifled all opposition to the gay agenda through hate speech laws and kangaroo courts punishing anyone who speaks against them. Canadians have been stripped of any semblance of free speech on abortion (bubble zone laws) and homosexuals (hate speech). Even the right to religious freedom is now in jeopardy based on the Canadian Supreme court decision on Whatcott Vs Sask. I really hope that the Americans are capable of dealing with this agenda more effectively than we were.

  71. I’ve always been a supporter for gay rights, even with my religious beliefs, but I am so sick and tired of Gay Everything being shoved down our throats! Gays coming out every other day. Nobody cares anymore. WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCE IS & WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU DO IN YOUR BEDROOM. YOU ARE MAKING THE PUBLIC SICK & TIRED OF YOU! DON’T YOU GET IT????? I will never ever ever ever vote for gay rights again! This is what we get for trying to be accepting! This is what we get! They just have to run it into the ground! Disgusting! Pathetic! They could have went to someone who would have been more than happy to make their cake & take their money & been respectful of their religious beliefs but NO, they have to make a national issue out of it! I hope gay marriage stays illegal & everything else about it. I will never vote for them again, EVER!!!!!!

    • So you’ve decided to stop supporting the whole of gay rights because you’re tired of hearing about the struggles they face on the news? Taking the WWJD attitude and tossing it out the window, I see…

      • Matt, get over yourself. A lot of us stand up with her! Its not about Jesus. If it was, there wouldn’t be this whole discussion. The Bible frowns down on same sex relationships. It’s about tolerance, not being a pain to everyone. Most of us have learned to be tolerant. Why can’t they?

      • I think we have had enough of the PC police- the media and the White House, pandering to gays and to the left. Twisting our liberties and perverting our laws. And Matt, how dare you bring Jesus into this. She made no reference to Jesus. Quit using Him as a prop for your pathetic anti-God rhetoric. Odd no one uses the name of Buddha or Allah. Thank you Tracy for speaking UP. Peace thru strength.

      • This is why I think so many are ignorant about Christianity. All souls came from spiritual bodies (angels) that were formed in the likeness of God. Thus, all are male. God then formed man in the likeness of God and the angels. Woman was created with the intent of bringing forth all of the angels who are with God at this time. God took the dna from man, and formed the woman. He also created all of the races, which are not represented in spiritual bodies. Thus, there is not race or sex in heaven. These are tests for each of us.

      • No you retard, shes tired of supporting a group with elitist ideas and notion that they get special rights. Thats like you fighting for minority rights, and those same people turbingr right back at you and calling you the racists… why fight for people who arnt going to fight for you…

      • This struggle you speak of is non-existent. Just what is it that you gays want and can’t get? Is it that you want to walk around in public sucking some dudes face or is it you want people to take you to church with them and stand you up on the pulpit and bow down to you. I don’t support anything gay never have and never will.

  72. I’m not a supporter of gay rights. Why should they have any special rights above the rights already guaranteed by the Constitution? Why should their bedroom antics be forced on the rest of the world? The legal system is wrong and the judges ruling in favor of the gay couples have turned out to be gay themselves. Makes for a great justice system doesn’t it? They will get to the Supreme Court and face some more gay judges……Justice?

  73. Welcome to the real world. When people say we must be accepting of others, they mean we MUST OR ELSE. We now MUST be accepting of islam because the government says so, we MUST be accepting of anti-American protesters of every sort, but nowhere is this reciprocated to Christian Americans. Once Pandora’s Box was opened in the 60’s, we were lost. Our country, with the exception of the Reagan years has been in steady decline. We the People have sat back and let this happen, although the two party system has been a major player in ruining us, and the Tea Party won’t even touch this issue of giving rights based on choice of sex partners.

  74. I am 69 and clearly recall throughout my life understanding that any merchant has the RIGHT to refuse service to any individual! We know muslims in this country are doing so with impunity. We know black establishments openly sport signs saying “blacks only” in black neighborhoods! BUT Christians refusing a service that goes against their religious beliefs are being persecuted and this Government’s courts are siding against them!
    The O regime says it is not at WAR with CHRISTIANITY and I call Buls…t on that!

    • Hello- Rumpledtiltskin, nobody has black only sign up. Muslim people have certain dietary restrictions so there may frequent business that understand that . In fact, many Aner business in or near Muslim communities change their business to cater to the Muslim dollar

    • Have you read about the end times? Christians WILL be persecuted! That means you, myself, Dave–all denominations, rich, poor, educated, uneducated, bakers, scientists, etc. instead of this silly squabbling amongst ourselves, let’s agree to disagree & do what Jesus said? Love The Lord your God with All your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind! While we’re at it, love one another as He has loved us–gay, straight, Muslum, Hindu, etc. get your act together, everybody! A house divided cannot stand! Dave–my personal apologies for the hatefulness you’ve seen here today. NOBODY is without sin, not one, and NOBODY gets to judge the validity of your salvation!

      Blessings to all.

      • Lisa, you are wrong about one thing. We do have an obligation to those who claim to be Christian, to let them know that they are wrong when they are. It is written in OT and NT, that we as servants of God, must put our brethren in remembrance of what laws they are breaking and that their soul is in jeopardy of destruction. No salvation is secure, if you continue in sin. And yes, we all do sin, even in trying to help one another, but the point is that continuing in sin is what determines to God, if we are even trying to please Him or ourselves. Oh, and one thing more. There are many who will be denied eternity because they bowed to satan, because they believed false teachers who taught them that Christ was coming first. If you study the Bible, you would never have gotten that idea at all. Christ clearly tells us to be prepared for battle against principalities and spiritual battles.

  75. Thank you Allen West for speaking and defending truth and our liberties and for your service to our nation. America bless God †

  76. Key word, “behavior”. That is a choice. We don’t choose our race. Or our eye color or our DNA. We DO choose our behavior. We have the right to choose which behavior we will promote both as individuals and as people who own and operate businesses. Others have the right to patronize businesses based on their services and, if we CHOOSE, those which promote things with which we agree. Must black business owners service customers who want them to promote “white supremacy”? Must Christian, Muslim and Jewish business owners service customers who wish to promote Satanism? If the baker and photographer had been Muslim, would we be discussing them for refusing?

    • Yes they must serve because it is “doing business with the public”. As a business owner I knew while I was starting up that I would encounter all types of people. By serving a muslim, I am not violating my Christian values. By serving a tattooed person I am not violating my beliefs against tattoos.

      • Key words: “Your beliefs…” Because yours must automatically be the same as everyone else’s, yes? Here’s the trick though. By participating in a wedding ceremony, you are giving unspoken consent to the union. It was not that these women were denied service on the basis of their being gay, as the article states. Rather, it is that the bakers could not in good conscience support this particular event. BIG difference.

      • So if you are “doing business with the public” you have to suspend your own beliefs even though it is YOUR business. And the “public”…they ALL have to do business with you? They don’t have the right to decide–for whatever reason at all–to do business with someone else? We are told that the lesbians had been customers of the baker before but she refused to serve them this time not because they are homosexuals but because providing the “marriage cake” for a homosexual wedding violated her religious beliefs that homosexuality IN PRACTICE is a sin and her belief is that marriage is only between one man and one woman. “Love the sinner; hate the sin”. I imagine she would also refuse to provide service to someone who wanted her to glorify Satan, though that’s a guess. It isn’t hatred to disagree with the choices others make or the beliefs they hold. My Muslim reference was asking if, for instance, YOU were a Muslim baker and homosexuals wanted you provide a “marriage cake” for their “wedding” I doubt that when you refused (and as a Muslim you would believe homosexuals are an abonomation and are beheaded in some countires so you WOULD refuse) any member of any media would have said a word. It would not have been a story. It’s only Christians, for now, who are targeted.

    • The only law about not serving customers is the “Uniform Commercial Code” which states that one cannot discriminate, for ANY reason, against a customer. Refusal to serve a customer is only acceptable for “unruly” people and inappropriate attire ( bare feet, no shirt, etc.). When one goes into public business it is assumed, by law, that one will encounter many types of people and therefore accepts the fact by continuing in business. Discrimination is defined in business law as refusing or ill-treating a customer based on ones own judgement, not the judgement of the masses. 44 states use the Uniform Commercial Code.

      • So what you’re saying, David, is that the uniform code trumps the first amendment? That a person should be forced to violate their religious beliefs and support a cause they feel to be wrong, just because someone’s feelings might get hurt?

  77. I wonder what it is going to take for people to realize what is coming their way? Is it going to take your baby girl coming home from school one day saying,” We have a new girl at school she was in the bathroom peeing and she had a thingy just like boys'” Think that is too much, well you better wake up if this keeps going it’s coming.

  78. There is a way for Christians to stand up for what they believe, in a free market.. When a gay couple comes in and orders a wedding cake, do not deny them service. Charge them 1.4 million dollars for a “specialty” wedding cake. That way they cannot claim discrimination, and unless they are incredibly wealthy there’s no way they will pay it. Of course there’s always the chance that they are incredibly wealthy in which case sell them the cake, and donate the profits to some Christian charity doing work in the mission field.
    Free markets give us the opportunity for freedom and doing God’s work.

    • Honey, when you go into a bakery for a tasting , you also ask or the bakery tells you how much by the slice . You tell them how many guest and they tell you how big the cake to order . If they say 2 k a slice , you don’t take it. Anything else is bait and switch

      • Sugar, bakeries do not sell wedding cakes by the slice. I know my sister in law owns a bakery.

        “if they say 2 k a slice , you don’t take it.”

        Exactly, and that’s their choice, no discrimination. No harm no foul.

      • That pic was taken by my BFF’s Moroccan BF for Halloween. We wore the headdress, a bikini and combat shoes. I thought it would be funny for this site since everybody hate muslims. I’m an Amer born and raised.
        Secondly I have to apologize, I was wrong about the cake slice. I was thinking about price by the head. SAW-REE. The post you were write last was about selling a speciality wedding cake for lots of money. I don’t think that would work either. If you charge a million to them and change less for another and the first couple finds out. That’s discrimination too, reguardless for color, sex, etc, it’s bad news for the business. LIke I said before, the bakery owners should have said “we have a big order coming in that week, sorry can’t do.” The couple already were friendly with the owners and would fall for it, no questions asked. The gay couple would simply go someplace else and say “WE are really happy for the bakery’s success.” The stupid owners had to open their mouths and make an issue out of it. Don’t take a stand.

      • Don’t hate Muslims. In fact, the majority of them will no doubt be in the millennium since they were taught wrong in this part of this earth age. They are not guilty of rejecting Christ, because they were taught wrong by their families. Even some Christians are taught wrong. But, if you are taught correctly and you still bow before satan when he comes, then you don’t get any more chances. See, it is considered only one chance, to be taught correctly. And only one chance if you were taught wrong, and go to the millennium. No one gets a second chance.

      • Hi Dorie. My philosophy on religion is simple. Let it be . It a personal thing. If it comforts and guides people, I don’t see anything wrong with that .

  79. If they asked for a wedding cake I would sell to them like I would anyone else. That is like discriminating because the couple is a multi racial couple. No difference. Besides it is NOT our place to be their judge. Remember Christ loved Mary Magdalene who was also a prostitute who loved both men and women. So do NOT judge least ye be judged. PERIOD.

    • First of all, STOP creating false equivalencies between race and the chosen actions of a certain group. There has -never- been found any evidence to suggest that someone is “born” gay, and even if there were, we -still- have the power to choose what actions we take in life. We don’t have any choice over whether we’re black or white or red or green or purple. Actions and genetics are NOT one and the same. Second, not a SINGLE person is suggesting we should not love gays the same as we love any other person. Indeed, I believe those who are trapped in the homosexual way of life need a greater deal of love than the rest of us. However, loving someone does NOT mean that you do not tell them if they’re doing something wrong! Do you not love your child if you see him putting his hand near a hot burner and tell him to take it away? You can’t judge him! He needs to experience the burner’s heat for himself. It’s part of his personal journey and you don’t have the right to judge him. See how ridiculous that sounds? It sounds just as ridiculous when you say I can’t call an action wrong just because I’m supposed to love a particular person.

      • First of all, STOP creating false equivalencies between race and the
        chosen actions of a certain group. There has -never- been found any
        evidence to suggest that someone is “born” gay, and even if there were,
        we -still- have the power to choose what actions we take in life. We
        don’t have any choice over whether we’re black or white or red or green
        or purple. Actions and genetics are NOT one and the same. Second, not a
        SINGLE person is suggesting we should not love gays the same as we love
        any other person. Indeed, I believe those who are trapped in the
        homosexual way of life need a greater deal of love than the rest of us.
        However, loving someone does NOT mean that you do not tell them if
        they’re doing something wrong!

    • Neena I was in agreement until you said there is no difference in being black and being gay or being white and being gay. Is it your place to judge the people you say are judging? You shouldn’t be using the word “PERIOD” the last person that used that word when speaking to the public was lying also.

      • There is a difference. Gay people can restrict their sinful behavior. Black and white people are not judged on behaviors and there in lies the fallacy of comparrison.

    • I can find nowhere in scripture that indicates Jesus supporting prostitution as a lifestyle. There is a marked difference between loving a human being a supporting destructive behavior.

  80. What if the owners of this bakery refused a black couple becaust it was a violation of their religion belief? Lots of “white-only” groups cite passages in the Bible to justify slavery.
    Ep 6:5- slavers to obey earthly masters
    Titus 2:9- tell slaveries to be submissive to their masters
    Would Mr. West strongly defend these church going people from the government and courts?

    • To reiterate my earlier point:

      First of all, STOP creating false equivalencies between race and the
      chosen actions of a certain group. There has -never- been found any
      evidence to suggest that someone is “born” gay, and even if there were,
      we -still- have the power to choose what actions we take in life. We
      don’t have any choice over whether we’re black or white or red or green
      or purple. Actions and genetics are NOT one and the same. Second, not a
      SINGLE person is suggesting we should not love gays the same as we love
      any other person. Indeed, I believe those who are trapped in the
      homosexual way of life need a greater deal of love than the rest of us.
      However, loving someone does NOT mean that you do not tell them if
      they’re doing something wrong!

      • WRONG! I run my own PUBLIC forensic Science Lab. I know for a FACT that gays have a broken X chromosome that links directly to sexuality. This was discovered 7 years ago and was in all the science journals. Know what you are talking about. You all look so stupid in your ignorant posts.

      • Try google or subscribe to the trade publication. I am not here for a pissing match. I simply despise ignorance. Everybody posting here can use Google and get the facts before they post, but would rather talk out their asses and make stink. I have a lot of bite. I have studied forensics for 18 years. You?

      • Yet you fail to cite your source or give us two or three credible links to prove your point. All you’re doing is shifting the burden of proof. Once more, you’re using logical fallacies to cover up the fact that your arguments are pure bunk.

      • Good Lord, American Journal of science to name one. Is it that hard to hit the Google icon. Holy crap, dude.

      • Davey,
        The fact you’ve conveniently left out is that studies since the one you cite (which I’ve not found, ironically) have questioned the veracity of your claim. In other words, my point stands. There has never been hard evidence found that proves homosexuality is genetic.

      • Whatever. You will find it if you try. You type too slowly and I have work to do. The bottom line is this. It is WRONG to discriminate. Period. Nice meeting you dale. Tho I would never serve someone named Dale. LOL

      • Davey,
        Another false equivalence. I could easily get my name changed legally if I wanted to, yet you claim homosexuality can’t be changed. Either it can’t or it can’t, and I notice you conveniently failed to offer a rebuttal to my point above. I win.

      • This is no game, Dale. I think you are lonely and have nothing to do but try to chat and play pissing match. I will not reply again. I kinda feel sorry for you. Blessings!

      • Davey, I just happen to be sick and venting some of my frustration by dealing with people like you who claim to be intellectual yet can’t even discern that almost every one of their arguments is a logical fallacy. Hope it all goes well for you.

      • Please don’t tell people that you are a Christian. Because you are not. Your own words are anti- Christ.

      • Your suggestion that it is purely a matter of DNA is to ignore everything we’ve learned since 1995. And yes, my name could be changed legally. Once again, I point out that you’re using false equivalence.

      • Excellent point! You as an American, should be able to choose who to serve and not. Free market will decide if you stay open for business or not. Not the government.

      • Dale you say you didnt find the study but studies claim the study was wrong. You proved yourself a liar just now. pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/genetics/nyreview.html

      • Yeah, if it’s on the internet it has to be true. Like the funny lady in the commercial that met her french model boyfriend. LOL

      • A pissing match seems to be exactly why you’re here. A logical discussion is beyond you. If you want people to take you and your arguments seriously, try being rational and stop name calling and spewing hatred. I’m always open to any discussion with someone I feel I can actually talk to. If you will not give weight to others’ opinions, why should they give weight to yours?

      • I have read a few general academically sound articles on this particular subject. Don’t need a degree to support perverse desires. And I am not the one going to hell.

      • Oh, Now I get it. Because something is written on paper it is an actual fact. I bet you voted for obama. You liberals are supposed to love gays and give them the keys to your towns. I guess you are the rebel libertarian. “it’s MY way or the highway” kinda girl. I bet you wait up for Santa on Christmas eve. Please don’t breed!

      • Aren’t you the one who’s been using the bible to back up numerous points you have been trying to prove? However, now that it goes against something you believe, you make the Bible’s pages out to be just some written words on a piece of paper. You can’t have it both ways, Dave!

      • I am gay and I definately am not going to hell. You hypocrites and bigots surely will. I bet you have a female pastor.

      • I am not going to make a judgment about where anyone goes for eternity. That is God’s choice. He made this test, and He is the one who will grade all of us. The point I have been trying to make is that we who love God, cannot accept, support or participate in same sex relationships. They are considered an abomination from the moment that Satan did so with Adam in the garden of Eden. And what someone else does, is their business, as long as they do not try to make me pay for it in any way, or support it in any way.

      • Perverse? I suppose you dont give blow jobs? I bet you had sex before marriage? I bet you have sex for fun, not reproduction. ALL that is forbidden by the Bible. even if you are married.

      • Sex inside of marriage is totally a joy, and as such, keeps both partners devoted to one another. In other words, it is fun and does not always result in reproduction. Out side of marriage is always unfulfilling and cause one to feel unhappy. Of course, I am speaking about a Christian, who would not want to have sex outside of marriage.

      • Dave, the words of Paul do not speak about a woman teaching in church. He was speaking about their chattering. That is a nice word for gossiping. And, Paul knew many women who were leaders in their church. One of Christ’s followers, Phillip, had four daughters who were prophets. Acts 21:8-9

      • Having intelligence makes a person all the more responsible for their actions, and thus, cannot claim ignorance when they face their Lord.

      • so you have no control over your actions?? heterosexual or homosexual doesn’t matter. As adult humans (not dogs) we do have control. Looking for ways to justify sin (every fallen human does that).

      • Davey,
        If you are really as intelligent as you claim then you should know that ad hominem is a logical fallacy and does little to add credibility to your argument. Second, you should know that our DNA does not have any bearing on our actions. Even if there were a “gay gene” it does not change the fact that we have control over our choices in life.

      • David,
        Another logical fallacy: appeal to authority. Being a university professor does not mean you are an expert on a given subject matter. If you choose to discuss this matter, PLEASE answer the arguments at hand.

      • “A broken x chromosome.”
        Politicaly based science is not scientifically based. Like everything else in politics, it is biased to fit an agenda and you know it.
        What you do have is a broken sense of morality due to the sinful nature of your rebellion against God.

      • I believe gays are born that way. Why would anyone put themselves in a position were they could lose their family, community and church? Experience violence , possibly lose their children? I would think after someone blashed your head into concrete you would straighten up right quick.
        Why can’t someone use that defense? The owners of the bakery ire the Bible?

      • There is no inequality in life. Only in which tests God has given us, and they are based on what we did in the first earth age. Perhaps you should find a field where you can be of great help to the world, and you would not be tempted to even think about sex. The point is clear, choosing to have a same sex relationship is choosing to reject God over yourself. And no true Christian can stay faithful to God and support you.

      • There are many churchs that have accepted gay people . There are plenty of gay people attending churches incognito.

      • My experiences with multiple people of gay/lesbian/bisexual orientation suggest there are multiple factors in causing someone to believe that they are that way. Genetics may be a factor, but factors are not on their own causes. I believe there are also mental and environmental causes. I can’t prove it, nor do I believe anyone on either side of the argument would support my position, simply because the debate is “you’re wrong because I’m right.” I do know people who’ve made a conscious decision to date those of their same sex, but I also know some for whom it was not a conscious decision at all. I’m simply tired of this false dichotomy that says either it’s a completely conscious choice, or it’s not a choice at all and your genetics determine your actions.

      • stop with the psuedo-intellectual crap already. Ask your gay friends if they chose. I know the answer. I was BORN gay. I chose NOT to be gay. It did not work. I almost commited suicide as a teen because I wanted to be “normal”. Tell me again I chose to be gay, morons! Thousands of teen gays commit suicide every year because THEY DONT WANT TO BE GAY!

      • If you really want to help people in exactly that situation, Davey, maybe you should stop trying to make excuses for the actions people choose to take in life (because we ALWAYS choose our actions) and start looking for the root causes of the problem.

      • So, you are saying you would rather not chose to love God, and so you chose to leave this testing period, if you cannot be or have what you want?

      • Choosing to be participating in same sex relationship is a choice. Like anyone who has a weakness in their flesh, it requires strength of purpose and devotion to the spirit to resist the pull from our fleshly desires. Those who live the gay life, chose to, because they are so self-absorbed.

      • You ask a good question I have a answer. They put their selves in that position because they don’t give a damn about family, children or community. They only think and care about self and as for church they have no need to go to a church because they don’t believe in what it stands for.

      • You were referring to gay people in your comment so they are gay people. Go back and read your post (I believe gay people are born that way why would anyone put their selves in that position). “They Are Gay”

      • You said “their selves ” it’s themselves .
        I always have to ask, do you know about gay people? It’s doesn’t have to be best buds . Gay peopke do care about their families. Check out how so many married gay couples have kids or want kids. I don’t know where you are getting your info . Being gay is not line being a Martian . They are regular people , just attracted to the same sex

      • They have a lust, a flesh weakness that they chose not to inhibit. Just like the child molester cannot help themselves from molesting children. Just like people who rob cannot help themselves from robbing. Just like Muslims cannot help themselves from killing someone who rejects their faith. We all have weaknesses, but in order to serve Christ, we must reject those weaknesses and put our loyalty and devotion to God first. All our desires must be repressed, and ask God to help us with our sins.

      • I went back and re read my comment and realized I didn’t make myself clear. I meant to say if you have a great laywer who puts up an equally great defense , you can get off on anything. We have all heard abouth wacky suits . I found a white woman in FL who got workmen comp after toe black guys robbed her.

      • There’s a whole lot of gays that go regularly to church and walk in faith I think they’ve cone to terms with the gayness and the Bible teachings.

      •  Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
        1 Corinthians 6:9 -11

        The Bible is clear, practicing homosexuals (or practicing any sin)will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It is not talking about a person who used to be homosexual, (or individual sins)who has accepted Christ as Lord of their life and changed the sinful behavior.

        Jesus said: Deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me.

      • Listen darling , all religions pick and choice what they think is important. The Bible is full of things like no cutting of your hair , marrying your brother’s widow, that whole crazy snake thing, no shellfish. I know it may sound silly , but some people hold that as abomination . What’s the difference bet Catholic, Methodists, Baptists? My faith says I have to accept people as I want to be accepted.

      • You mean they do not actively participate in their desire for the same sex? That would be coming to terms with their lust and keeping it under control as the Bible teachings do say. God has already said that He regretted putting our souls in flesh, because we are so weak, and putting GOD first does require a great deal of strength.

      • I’m not saying people own slaves. I ‘me saying the white all people want to reinstate slavery.
        And please let’s not get into the demos were KKK. That logic is nuts

      • Ad hominem. You’re attacking someone because of their race. You have no proof whatsoever that “all white people want to reinstate slavery.” That’s a vicious affront to the character of millions of people you don’t even know. Shame on you.

      • Sorry Dale. I got my words screwed up. I meant to say white power movement . The KKK, Ayrian nation, skin heads. Like that. Sorry for the confusion . Sometimes my fat fingers get the better of me.

    • If you are a Christian, then you would know that you are a slave to your Lord Jesus Christ. As far as slavery goes, man would put himself in servitude to another man in order to pay his bills. Also, when God told His people to go claim their promised land, they had to fight for it. Nothing that is given is ever truly appreciated without sweat and blood expended. Thus, God would tell His people not to take prisoners. And they would not heed Him, and thus, the children and wives of the dead were more than just slaves, but were bitter slaves. Slavery has been a part of war since the beginning of waring. It is not unique to this country. In fact, it was black men who were selling their brothers into slavery.

      • I’m glad you want to share your devotion and love for The Lord with me . That said, I would appreciate if you left me alone for a while . If you see my name again, please feel free to post something , but I think we have said enought for today

      • When someone posts on this board, it is my right to post to them. Liberals always when unable to answer back to a Christian say that we are forcing our beliefs onto them, or harassing them, or they ask you to leave them alone. Because when they no longer have an answer or cannot be reasonable, they hit back with how somehow we are the ones who have the problem. Well, we know you cannot answer the issues that have to do with God. That is why those who are on the outside of God’s future, will continue to stay there, because they would rather win an argument or run, than to know God and become one of His workers in the field.

  81. Ok. You’re a Christian family who sells cakes. You have five children. You aren’t wasting time online like all the liberals who do not have families to take care of. A lesbian buys a cake. You sell it to her. Then she and her lover who want to RAISE children ON PURPOSE without a Father ask to buy a wedding cake. You might want to review Romans in the Bible (the Bible is hate speech). You know they might shut down your business, or worse, you don’t. Either way, the answer is no, I am a Christian. Give me liberty or give me death. When the military cites the laughable Southern Poverty Law Center, maybe it really IS time to form a militia. Christians, hear me?

    • stop spouting scripture. We all know it! That is your belief and by refusing a customer YOU are forcing Your beliefs on others. Hypocrite!

      • So instead you should be forced to violate your own deeply-held religious beliefs in violation of the first amendment. Is that what your argument comes down to, David?

      • I will admit I DO NOT like muslims but I will still treat them equally. They represent everything against my Christian faith; however, I follow the Biblical Golden Rule. Jesus said: Do unto others as you would have them do unto year. Any other action is hypocrisy, thus sin.

      • How about answering the question instead of dodging it, Dave. These people believed participating in a lesbian wedding (a union not even recognized under Oregon law, I might add) was in violation of their religious beliefs. Therefore, they refused to participate. Do you or do you not believe that the right to a wedding cake trumps someone’s right to their free practice of religion? Yes or no.

      • Wrong. God/Christ was speaking about how we as His servants should act in order to help our brethern to serve God. The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. In order to help others, we must be open to them and willing to sacrifice to help save them.

      • That is something I Will Never do. I don’t brag about science degrees but as an American, I can say ” Give me liberty or give me death.”

      • Tolerance= to tolerate, not embrace. See how words work? They have specific definitions. Kinda like “marriage”. This is where those critical thinking skills would come in handy!

      • No one was forcing their religious belief onto others. The bakery would not have even known they were gay if they did not advertise it. Asking someone to make a cake for a wedding doesn’t require you boasting about your sexual disposition. The need to try to force everyone to accept their beliefs, their actions, their moral code, is why they needed to be rejected. It is they who are forcing their morals onto the rest of us. Clearly, sex is something that is not an issue unless you make it known.

    • Excuses are for losers, i.e. democrats and liberals. The Golden Rule says all that needs to be said. All this Bible thumping yet they all missed it: JESUS said do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Christians, hear me?

      • Jesus never said to become part of someone else’s sin. If those women had been cold and asked for help to keep them warm, a Christian would not consider their immoral issue, but the need to be warm. You completely miss the point of what Jesus expects of us. Helping someone in need not participate in sin.

  82. People WILL get tired of their freedoms being taken. Maybe when it is too late to do anything. We need more powerful or even vocal people involved.

  83. The point is the gay couple went to a bakery they had been to before and most likely were well aware of the Kleins religious beliefs. They ordered the cake from that bakery for their own agenda. Would the same court rulings been made if it were a Muslim bakery? Would the gay couple have purposely went to a Muslim bakery? While some Muslim countries allow same sex couples, in other countries or within families it is a punishable offense and looked upon with shame. If there were not another agenda here, why didn’t the couple go to a bakery that had no problem making wedding cakes for gay couples. This is not the only bakery in town. A couple of phone calls to bakeries would have been all it took to find one that would welcome making the wedding cake. Common sense would tell you that you would want to do business with a company that welcomes your business. The Kleins were targeted because of their religious beliefs. Ask yourself would you really want to give your business to a place who does not want it based on their religious beliefs or would you rather give your business and help support a business that welcomes you?

    • Excuses are for losers, i.e. democrats and liberals. The Golden Rule says all that needs to be said. All this Bible thumping yet they all missed it: JESUS said do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

      • dave, Jesus was speaking of how we are to treat people who are seeking Him. The words He speaks are directed to all who are His witnesses. It is not written to heathens and atheists. It is not written to Muslims. If anyone has a different position than what Christ said, then they are not Christians and the word is not for them. You see, Christ wanted us to help our brethren when they ask for help. But we are not obliged to help those who are not in Christ. And do tell me, have you ever helped a Muslim with the belief that they would do the same unto you? Only another Christian would know to live the golden rule. And preaching it is not living it. How many thousands of dollars have you expended to help others without the government taking from you to make it happen? Not really interested in you boasting, for if you lay claim to recognition here, there is no reward in heaven. I was merely pointing out that in order for what Christ said, it has to come from ‘your own pocket, and not from the government.

      • Agenda: less than 2% of the population demanding the majority religion of the nation in which they reside to ignore its beliefs.

      • David, what it comes down to is that you believe someone’s right to have a cake baked for a ceremony trumps another person’s free exercise of religion. For shame.

      • No, it does not. The Constitution cannot guarantee anything beyond your right to strive for life, liberty, and to seek happiness. But it also says that it can be changed by the masses, if they so desire. Check it out

    • No. I will accept you and you will accept me. If I feel something is wrong, I have every right to do something about it, except by using violence. I either respectfully confront you, or the more extreme , take you to court.

      • Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
        or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
        speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
        assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

        I am do not subscribe to any one religion, I believe all modern organized teach the same thing just interpreted differently. These people had no more right to deny the religious beliefs of the bakery owners, then the bakery owners had to deny them the right to be with who they loved.

      • The bakery folks did not deny homosexuals to be with whom they chose. That is not the issue. Christians do not deny a homosexual the right to live as they so chose. That is not the issue. The issue is that homosexuals chose to force their lifestyle onto the rest of us. We either have to accept them, or they will find a way to hurt us. Try to humiliate us, etc.

      • No one harmed you, so suing is purely a personal issue. And if you try to harm one of God’s children, He will get revenge. God has already told us that we cannot accept people who reject His laws, His purpose, His way. God put us here to make that choice, to either love Him or chose to go the way of Satan. In order of all of His creation to be born into this life, without the knowledge of the first earth age, the man and the woman must be mated together to bring forth life. Any other relationship thwarts God’s Plans. And, shows a deliberate rejection of God’s Purpose. Clearly, when you love yourself more than you love God, you will do anything to make your own life look acceptable. But, in the end, it is not acceptable to God, and cannot be for those who want to be with God in eternity. At least it is not the unforgiveable sin, in that if it is stopped and you repent, and devote your life to God, then you are capable of being forgiven. The only sin that is not forgiven in the flesh is murder. However, murder is not the unforgiveable sin.

      • Only for those who are not studious in His Word. It is difficult for people, who let others tell them what to believe. Study for yourself, because, I am only going to be held accountable for my acts. Not for yours.

      • Fail if they accepted the bakers for who they are they wold of just went to another bakery instead of suing and causing them so much trouble they lost their store.

      • Atrocious spelling does not negate the point that was made. Perhaps you should have paid more attention in school, could’ve picked up some critical thinking skills. Thanks for playing, Dave.

    • The word is accept if you are talking about someone joining. Except is the word used when there is an exception to something or rejection. But you are right, the premise is that we must be tolerant, but they do not have to. But remember this, Satan was the first homosexual, so that is why they are craving acceptance. When God is the influence on your life, then what He wants of you, is what you want. You do not try to change the moral or legal code He has set up.

  84. Here we have another hidden purpose of the gay lobby by Gaybama, taking any business he can that isn’t already taken down by Deathcare or his other destroy American from within policies.

  85. How about this????
    What if the bakery simply says ” we are booked up?” I know it’s a lie, but it sure beats all the BS they went thru. The gay couple are frequent customers , they know the owners, they will believe anything . I bet the gay couple who be happy for their success abd happily go someplace else. I do it all the time when I don’t want to deal with an a hole.

    • Business can refuse service if the costumer comes in acting in a dangerous manner like violent or drunk , if a costumer comes not wearing shoes or shirts or dressed improperly like in gang colors. Not for sex, color, nationality, gayness , etc. it’s always been that way.

      • you are right sex, creed and color and discrimination has always been that way. Because someone is of a different color, sex, or creed does not affect one’s religious belief, However, the now added gay rights now is trying to make the same play. Unfortunately, Theirs is a belief , just like that of the Christians. They believe same sex marriage is the same as man and women. Homosexuality, like Christianity is a belief, a feeling that this belief is right. It is not sex, creed, or color that is being involved, but its is belief and way of life that is being challenged. Homosexuals have a right to live in the manner they see fit, but So do Christians. Each has a right to their own beliefs and forcing one to abide by your belief without any thought of theirs is wrong.

      • Back to the ad hominem and false equivallencies are we, Davey? And here I was hoping some time at work would put you in the mood for logical discourse.

      • I understand your point completely . But all people in this country should be able to live however they choose. Laws should apply to everybody like it is written in the Constitution. Civil rights are hard to argue against. And please don’t hit me with that marrying an dog crap. Animals are not people

      • “…should be able to live however they choose.” Unless, of course, you’re a white, Christian, heterosexual male… then people can whine and cry with the goal of limiting your rights, all the while calling it a fight for “equality” or against “intolerance”. It’s a two way street.

      • I really wish you would stop thinking the world is against white people. Guess what?? White people are in control. Look around. YOU have the victim mentally. Everything I hear is, Muslims have this and blacks have that, and whites are being run over. What proof do you have? Whites are wealthier, have better jobs, in congress, white reps and demo out number other groups. Whites write the rules, son. NObody is taking anything with you. You just have to share because it’s time to be fair. A gay person has the same rights as anyone on else. The only diff bet gay and straight is who you are attracted to. No horns or pink skin.

      • Actually, my friend, the world IS becoming increasingly unfriendly towards whites. Nelson Mandela ordered the South African genocide of Whites, which continues to this day. Middle easterners will kill a White on sight, regardless of religion. American blacks kill more Whites DAILY than any other ethnicity in America.

      • With God, the concept of sharing is non-existent. God gives to His Elect, Him as an inheritance, and as such, they are given much higher status than any other soul that is saved. So, your concept of sharing is man made, by lazy, inept people who want to rule over the masses, while at the same time being kept by them.

      • No, hon. It’s everybody’s share.
        “That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute ” Tim 6:18

      • Again you are wrong. Christians are not obligated to do anything for a non-believer. We may do for anyone that we chose, which is called charity. But the government doing the giving is not following God or His work. So, in everything that you do through the government, nothing is counted to good works for you by God.

      • He is the GOD over all. and there you go again, trying to one up even God. See, we can tell you are a liberal, because you put yourself over Him. God is Righteous, which means He does no wrong. He set up this world, and put the tests out there for each and everyone of us. Clearly, you are not passing, at least at this time. But God is fair, and considering that you may not have a witness in your family, He may give you more time than He does for others. But remember, you will be witnessed to three times, and rejection of God is one thing that will put you on the wrong side of the cravass.and seal your fate.

      • The problem isnt about everyone wanting their own way; it is about not obeying the Constitution — Which states that ALL people shall be treated equally. It did not say “except homosexuals”. In my own opinion, that is the only factor — anything else is an infringement of the rights GUARANTEED by the constitution.

      • No, the Constitution does not say that

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. ETC.
        All men are created equal by God, but then, they tend to become unequal when they refuse to work, refuse to believe in the God who created them, and put themselves before Him. Then, they are no longer equal.

      • Tell me how we’re not allowing them to live as they choose again? PLEASE tell me what civil rights homosexuals are denied. Please do.

      • Being able to show how much you love someone like everyone else. And having the same benifits that Hetro married people have . In some hospitals , it’s only family only in hospital rooms.make medical decision for your mate. I know, BS but not if you love that person.
        Gays are just peopke , that’s it. Full disclosure , I still gets werided out when I see gays PDA abd I still get werided out when I see a woman with tatoos all over her body. But I deal with it abd move on.

      • Wait a minute… So this is about BENEFITS? Aha! So you admit it! Benefits don’t equal civil rights, sweetheart.

      • Are you married? Did you get married for the benefits? People don’t have kids for the tax brakes. Or don’t volunteer to take care of sick parent for their SS checks.

      • Nice non-sequiter there. You admitted above this is about them not getting the same benefits as a legally married couple. The law does not recognize a specific legal contract between a specific set of people, and you call it inequality. Yet that person has every legal right that I have. The only difference is they choose not to exercise it.

      • Excuse me, arm-chair professor: The law DOES recognize INDIVIDUAL contracts. Don’t worry about “sets”.

      • Then take away the benefits for everyone. NO one really needs to be compensated for being married. And it really should not be about benefits. That is not love.

      • People do have a right to do what they want to. I agree with that. But my question is, If you know someone feels that way, why bother them to start with. There are others out there that would be glad to make the cake, take the photo, or what ever needs to be done. This has nothing to do with wither someone is gay or straight , interracial marriages, or anything else. It has to do with purposely going to a place you know will deny the offer because of their own beliefs. This and other sounds like a political ploy to get attention. I am not racist, nor do I care what others do with their life as long as it is not thrust upon myself and my beliefs. Many of my friends are black, several are interracially married, and I know a few homosexuals. We get along fine,

      • Getting along with people isn’t the issue. The issue is that some people who have chosen a life style that goes against most of the religious groups of the world, are now pitting their belief that they should have everyone accept their lifestyle and reject the religious belief that goes against them. When a person is nice to you, you can get along. When they try to target you and force you to accept something that they know is going to cause a division, then they are not trying to get along.

      • People had religious convictions against whites and blacks marrying, just a little while back. They felt the same way about that as you do now about this. Exactly the same. Interracial couples held a “belief” that they should be entitled to enjoy marriage as well, while, again, many Christians held a belief that God simply did not intend the races to mix – as clearly evidenced by His placement of the races on separate continents.

      • No, you are misrepresenting God’s Word. The only restriction on marriage was for the Hebrew in marrying outside of His faith.

      • You overlook the fact that sexual orientation is an included protection under the law and I don’t know where you learned that homosexuality is a belief but you need to return for a refresher course.

      • It is a form of belief. There are three main religions and all of them condemn homosexuality. Thus, the homosexual choses to reject those religions and create his own. If you are not for God, you are against Him. Thus, you are in satan’s camp.

    • It’s all craziness, evil and ungodliness, and it’s at every turn and corner. To stand for Christian values in this age and in the future will test the faith of all Christians. The target of discrimination is aimed straight at Christians and Christian values/morals. From henceforth, any business owner who does not desire to cater or serve due to their religious beliefs, perhaps can deny service on grounds that: they’re backed up and can’t fill the order in time; or, they have a problem getting supplies to complete the order. Sad that one has to lie and give excuses, but I think they can pray for forgiveness and be forgiven due to the circumstances that Christians are being directly targeted because of their beliefs. Then again,to suffer for righteousness gives glory to God. It looks like standing up for whats is right according to what one believes is going to require lots of prayer and strength from above. God help us all.

  86. Shame on Oregon, don’t do as I do, do as I say! It probably goes against their religion and if you cannot honor God by respecting his word….then you can’t respect anything.

  87. SMH – I’m gay and I don’t agree with this suing someone just because you won’t due me a service. Take your money else where people. It is just that simple.

  88. I was all ready to vote for Allen West but since I see most of you are judgers, haters, bigots, and hypocrites, I will Go with Herman Cain.

    • Why not a Libertarian candidate? It seems you definitely seem to side with them on Homosexual views, and you have certainly pointed out that you are not a democrat. Choose Libertarian. Choose Liberty.

      • I wrote that initially, but then deleted it after I read what you wrote, “by refusing a customer YOU are forcing Your beliefs on others. Hypocrite!”. That is most certainly not a Libertarian stance, that is a stance against liberty. There are plenty other bakeries(especially in Portland, OR), where they can go get a gay wedding cake. If there was a law in place, that said all bakeries HAVE to sell wedding cakes to gays, that would be equally against freedom as a law in place that said all bakeries cannot serve gays. Why is this hard to explain? Anyone? ANYONE?

      • Oh, I agree but not entirely. You see The Constitution is ant-discrimination and I believe the bakery was discriminating. I would NEVER discriminate against some one. The Bible states the Golden Rule and that is what I abide by.

      • God expects us to not support anything that is a sin. Thus, if you agreee or support anyone who does not follow through on God’s Plan of Salvation, Man and woman marrying and having children, raising them in the Word, so that they may chose who they love and follow, God or satan, then you are as guilty as they are in their sin. Clearly, you are not well versed on the Bible. And you are misinterpreting the Bible..

      • Dorie N : making a cake as a business is not supporting any one. Many gays are christian an they have been saved. They are NOT going to hell because they are gay. The word that you mention begins with the golden rule, my dear.

      • You can claim to be whatever you want, does not make it so. God does accept someone who has rejected their desires, and is not living them. But, in the end, if you are a robber, and cannot stop robbing, then all your platitudes toward God do nothing. For God has given you His expectations, and they are not up for change, vacillation, or interpretation.

      • Dave, if you have been keeping up, I said that I would have made a cake. Just not decorated it in honor of their relationship. Nor would I deliver it. As for who is or is not a Christian, that is up to God. But, I have told you, you cannot worship satan, and still be in the same camp with God. And giving in to lusts that are against God’s Plan of Salvation, makes people who are continuing in a same sex relationship putting themselves above God. Where they go is between them and God. I am just a servant who like any other, is expected to help those who are blind see where they are going. If they chose to go there, that is their choice.
        And Dave, we have spoken about the passages where Christ speaks to helping out our brothers. We are only obliged to help those who are Christ’s and not obliged to participate in their sins.

      • I wish more gay people were Conservative Republican. I do not think the Dems are doing gay people any favors in the long run, not when they are also holding hands with the Muslim Brotherhood.

      • Amen….the democrat party makes no sense. They are using the votes of gay people, minorities, women, and the poor just to maintain their power while venomously anti-gay haters, racists, and wife beaters from the middle east (muslim brotherhood) give the democrats an empty puppet for a president, fill their pockets with money …..then the democrats send our tax dollars and weapons back to the middle east.

      • I agree. I guess I am weird because although gay, I do not support most of the gay agenda. Most of it is unacceptable. The bottom line is: Equality for all .(Though gay marriage should be “Union”). I simply cannot tolerate ANY form of discrimination against ANYBODY.

      • Jesus saved me so who the hell are you to judge me? Stick Romans where the sun doesnt shine. Jesus Himself despised zealots and doom-sayers! Read the Bible before coming here and thumping it. We are beyond quoting scripture.

      • Jesus did die for all of the world’s sins. However, in order to get that salvation, one has to commit to God’s expectations. God does not give away salvation for free to us. We have obligations that we must fulfill. Read your Bible, and you will see, “Except you …..; If you do….. ; Unless you ….. etc.” Too many ignorant people think that they can continue in their sin and still be with God. Not so. He has made it clear, that unless you fulfill His requirements, you are not worthy of His sacrifice.

    • As per YOUR comment; Just who is judging others here? Your comment seems hypocritical and bigoted to me. Further, moral convictions are NOT synonymous with hate. Please use your God given brain to think before you scribble nonsense.

      • No, it’s called morals. No matter what you think, NOWHERE in the Supreme Law of the Land does it say one is obliged to serve anyone. Especially when an action is contrary to moral convictions.
        You can’t be so naive to believe that those deviants couldn’t have gone somewhere else. They chose instead to force acceptance.

      • F-ing moron! Businesses must follow business law. It is known as the Uniform Commercial Code. I hate a freaking arm chair professor!

      • You’re referring possibly to your states’ laws, which are repealable based on their unconstitutionality. There are no federal laws.

        BTW, you’re demonstrating your own questionable communication skills by name calling. A typical liberal trait.

      • As I said it is clear when a liberal is losing that they call names, and tend to try to distort the whole situation. The bakers did not refuse to serve the patrons, but refused to be involved in making a cake to celebrate their sin. Thus, they could have bought the cake plain, and had someone else decorate it.

      • Yes, it is judgmental, but it is judgment on what we ourselves would do. What you do is your problem. We would be better off to lose the business or the life, than to be taken down the path of unrighteousness.

    • You low info despots have no direction…commandment nor commander. Your cut flower ethics leave you swaying in the wind by your blurred perception of reality. Continuing to vote by your emotions may get you a bump in your monthly government stipend. Keep it up lefty settling for good is more than you can handle. The people on this site strive for God’s best…Mr Cain is at the top of the list…pressing on.

      • I do care what you believe because it’s attitudes like yours that are affecting everyone. You can bet your bippie that not everyone will remain silent and compliant on your say so.

      • When a liberal is losing an argument, they tend to do what Muslims do. They lie. If there are Republicans who actually believe that it is alright to murder babies in the womb, or to have sex with just any sex, then they clearly are not Christians, and they do not represent the majority of the Republican party.

      • Liberals are by choice living the lie. As far as Christians go, I have my doubts on any of them who are homos, but believe God made a mistake with the equipment they were born with, or scientifically and biologically confuse the purpose of their genitals. On abortion, hands down, it’s clearly murder, snuffing out the live fetus of a human being>>>Thou Shalt Not Kill is a pretty clear Commandment. No one politician of any stripe represents me when they say otherwise.

      • God does not make mistakes. We are all born with things that we must learn to conquer, based on what we were like in the first earth age. Those who have a tougher road to plow, well, they might just be the souls who followed satan in the first earth age. Remember, satan was the first homosexual. That is why their choices seem insurmountable, is because he is influencing them.

    • It is not judging to follow the laws that God has set up for us. We do not judge where a person goes for eternity. That is between the person and God. But God has told us in OT and NT, that if we support evil in any way, we are as guilty as the persons who are committing the evil. And therefore, we cannot support anything that rejects God’s Plan of Salvation. I am glad that this country is not doing to homoosexuals what they do in Muslim countries. I believe it is murder that is the only sin that cannot be forgiven in the flesh.

      • My friend, believing and forcing ones beliefs on a customer are two different things. Jesus does NOT want Christians to hurt someones’s feelings. Just what would my Savior do? He would smile and make the cake!

      • I do not presume to take the place of Jesus. That is what liberals do. They try to play God. I discern what God has told us to do. Reject the sins of our brothers, and make sure that they know that they are in sin. Someone who claims to be a Christian and then still opts for murdering babies or rejecting God’s plan of salvation by having same sex shows that they are still in sin, and are trying to make up their own rules or laws to live by. Sorry, but no laws of this land trump God’s. It would be better to lose the business than to lose your soul. And God gets the revenge for those who would harm His own.

  89. understand i don’t have anything ageist gay people. I don’t discriminate there right to find happiness. I’m happy to afford them the right and privilege to believe and live any way they want to. Including there rights to be wed. If that is what they choose to do. But don’t you agree. Discrimination goes both ways. I don’t try to change push my believes on you. So why should they not afford me the same privilege to have my believes.

  90. I think there is something very important that people are forgetting here that makes the situation in this story special. I’ve read a few comments on here that are drawing ties to refusing service to gays to refusing service to minorities(ie: blacks). A Wedding is a Religious Practice. The bakery owners were refusing a service that’s only existing purpose is in a Religious Practice. Their actions were absolutely constitutional by freedom of religion, and also by basic American Property and Business Owner Rights. (WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE TO ANYONE.) Yes people, business owners really do! Its not just a sign!

    • A wedding is more than a religious practice. Try getting a divorce and learn how legal it can become. The bakery owners violated state law plain and simple and the gay couple exercised their legal right to seek remedy. It appears the problem would seem to be with the statutes that allow the gay couple to seek remedy. Change that and you have nothing to bitch about.

      • There is no laws in that state about gay marriage. I think you are wrong on this issue. If a person has a religious issue with doing something for someone, the other person should not have the right to dictate what you can believe. So, it is the religious beliefs that trump this couple’s desire to cause harm for that business.

    • Weddings are NOT always religious ceremonies! in fact the vast majority of weddings are simple LEGAL certifications done by a judge or justice of the peace.

  91. I feel this bakery has a right to stand by their beliefs. Whether those beliefs coincide with their customer’s beliefs or not. Live and let live. Get the Government out of our daily lives.

  92. I am so sick of this attack. Ready to take a stand for my blasted rights. Enough..we have been silent and tolerant too long. The Government has drawn a line in the sand.

  93. As long as conservatives side with hate and ignorance, this country and the majority of its populace will continue to allow the idiots on the far left to ruin our country. No, this couple should not be sued for their idiotic decision; they should see their business shrivel up and die through the free-market response to their moronic and twisted beliefs. The right-wing moral “majority” has ruined the conservative platform by manueving christian fundamentalism into the doctrine. And, until the greater GOP seperates itself from trying to legislate morality and returns to the business of trying to govern for ALL the people, it will continue to sit back low in support and impotent in the fight against those that seek to take absolute control of our freedoms and turn the US into a bankrupt nanny-state. Get on the right side of the arguement before it is too late 😉

    • From what I gathered reading the article the only hate and ignorance that was displayed was from the gay and liberal communities; “After a year of hate-filled, threatening emails and canceled contracts – even a break-in of their company truck…” If a conservative went to a gay bakery and was refused service they’d simply thank them for their time and do business with another company, at least that’s what all the conservatives I know would do.

      Each time I read an article like this it is always the gays and liberals who “lash out”. Where’s all that love and tolerance the gay community and liberal left always touts?

      There is a difference between homophobia and intolerance and exercising one’s beliefs within the constructs of a particular individual’s faith. Sweet Cakes wasn’t behaving homophobic or intolerant as they had done work for the couple before, it was simply that the act of gay marriage was in direct conflict with their faith and to make a cake for a gay wedding would fly in the face of what they believe, based on their religion and the free practice thereof, something guaranteed by the first amendment.

      So the answer is to litigate against all businesses that are built upon foundations of faith? That is absurd and ridiculous and backward thinking in a free market economy. Perhaps a better answer would be to live and let live.

    • Seems you’re the only one talking about hate, why’s that? Are you projecting your own hatred upon others?

      By what logic, should I be forced to serve you? Seems you’re just a bigot and I’d prefer not to do business with you at all.

      BTW, who is using the force of the gov’t in this case? Try to wrap you head around the fact that it is the gov’t forcing folks to comply with asinine LAWS.

    • The left are trying to legislate our moral laws. Let us try to keep things straight. If you go out and force your will, there will be push back. And more than likely, it will come from God.

  94. Allen Donahue, Maybe you Sir, can enlighten me, and millions of others, just where the “hate” is in a business owner having moral convictions? Or just where the “ignorance” is in such action as these business owners have conducted? The words “hate”, “ignorance”, “idiots”, as well as wishing for the livelyhood of anyone to “shrivel up and die” merely because one business owner chooses to refuse service to a customer, is Rather indicative of evidence of hate, would you not agree? I mean, simply refusing, on first amendment rights, to bake someone a cake, and right away you folks start screaming “Hate crime”? Truth be told here, the only crime here is one where a bona-fide business is forced to conduct business with a customer who is clearly targeting the business for nefarious reasons, am I not correct Sir? I submit, the agenda of the homosexual community and it’s supporters, et-al, are guilty of far more than some cake baker somewhere in America. You spew your message of “hate”, “ignorance”, and immorality as if you have the market cornered on intelligence, which makes you all the more ignorant yourself, it would seem. As a former business owner myself, I have refused my services on several occasions, mostly due to nothing more than the ignorance, or vulgarity of the customer, and that was my right Sir. You, and the rest of your ‘friends’ within the homosexual community have no ‘right’ to force ONE business to cow-down to your political, OR personal agenda, the truth is sometimes rather difficult to accept. Now, as for your mere assumption that I may be ignorant, or may be a ‘hater’, I am neither, I do however, tend to be out-spoken and tend to point out evident truth to those of a ‘lesser mind’ as it were. As for your contention of “moronic and twisted beliefs”, that may work IF you are a gambler, AND correct in your HOPE that there is no God, that the Holy Bible was written is some dirty-fingered, mindless, hopeless minion’s little dank cellar, IF Sir, you are wrong though….. Now, as regards the Christian ‘right wing ruining the conservative platform by maneuvering Christian fundamentalism into the doctrine”, I direct your attention to the fact that the homosexuals brought their abominable lifestyle into the political arena, so, this mess was given birth by you/them, not the other way around, again, truth is sometime difficult to accept, is it not?
    __It is my hope, my prayer that you find your way to the truth Sir, as Hell is not to be a very, pleasant place for one to spend eternity, and I do not argue the merits of your beliefs, as your beliefs have no merit to the Christian community. Have a great and grace filled day!

    • Love your speil until you said Hell is for eternity. Hell is the feeling in one’s mind (soul) knowing that you failed and are doomed to the second death. The second death is just that. Permanently gone. Therefore, there is no more hell since it is destroyed. Rev 20:14

  95. Reluctantly putting my own religious beliefs aside for a moment, Just WHERE in the supreme law of the land is it written that I’m obliged to do business with anyone? NOWHERE!!

  96. The lesbian couple was offered cakes from other establishments plus a famous chef and they rejected the offers. Oregon has crazy people running the government. 20 years ago I had a neighbor who worked in the government environment, she said she was invited to the house of a superior who was in charge of Finances; she said he was gay. Gay people can be bias and disrespectful of others beleifs; they are unjust and unfair.

  97. Moral of story…don’t live in blue states if you are a Christian, a conservative or a small business owner, just to name a few

  98. “We are entering a dangerous phase in America where businesses are being punished for their beliefs.”

    I think we already have. The First Amendment protects beliefs and thoughts and we’re all guilty of possessing both. That’s what establishes our individuality, complete with our biases. Now, it’s difficult to separate the two because it gets into the realm of discrimination. If we can refuse to provide a service because of our religious beliefs and be protected by the First Amendment, then why can’t we refuse service because of our biases towards a particular race and still be protected by the First Amendment? After all, expressing your thoughts, right or wrong, is an expression of free speech. This is where I depart from the current logic of hate crimes, because a crime is a crime and naturally born out of some form of hate. We did not need new hate crime designations, we just needed to enforce the laws we had. The enlightenment does not come from creating new classes of protected persons, it comes from recognizing that we are all equal and should respect people’s differences even if we disagree. That way we can foster a climate of honesty and not one of harboring resentments. These bakers are being punished for being honest. They could have lied and said they were too busy to produce the cake. I ask you, which is the better America, the one where we can be open and honest or the one where we have to hide in the shadows and lie?

    • The need for recognition, self-justification, 15 minutes of fame, an attempt to receive money through a frivolous lawsuit? I certainly don’t find a valid reason to force a business to close its doors because it exercised it’s constitutional rights to a basic difference of opinion.

      • The left has been trying to insert discrimination into practically every argument. The very law that addresses “discrimination” actually discriminates against the business owners and the operation of the business. The government is literally forcing people to accept homosexuals regardless of their personal or religious convictions. It is disheartening to see this great country succumb to a false civil rights issue that is cancelling others civil rights. How has the homosexual lifestyle integrated into a diversity category that for a long time was used by businesses to keep others from discriminating against unchangeable factors?

    • The difference is clear. When you refuse a person for their race, you are doing so because you feel superior to that person. Not so with religious convictions. I have no such feelings of being better than about anyone. I just do not wish to have someone else’s path become mine. God made it clear for all of us. If we chose to follow others down their path, then we get the same judgment that they do.

      • My dear, I think you take it too far out of context. I always say: If you don’t know what to do, use the Golden Rule. God is love and understanding. He isnt going to be angry because you bake a cake for a gay couple. God does not want us to hurt peoples feelings. I know they could have gone elsewhere, but discrimination hurts regardless.

    • I agree with you 100 percent, BUT, what if the customers were black muslims, or hadissic Jews? America has evolved into favboritism and the supreme court, in their evil wisdom, has proven it.

    • BTW you CANNOT force your beliefs on others. Right? Well, refusing service because of what you believe, is, ergo, forcing your beliefs therefore violating another’s civil rights. No matter how it gets twisted, discrimination is discrimination.

      • You could look at it that way, but I don’t think it is forced because of the ability of free choice. We all, to some extent or another, expose others to our beliefs. The forcing, however, comes about by the requirement to abide by a belief you do not hold. Yes, the customer in this case is exposed to the shop owners belief, but the customer is not forced to abide that belief because they can go down the street to the shop that will sell them a cake. The shop owner, on the other hand, is forced to abide a belief they don’t hold (they are compelled to sell to the gay couple). There is a difference, the ability to choose.
        In a perfect world there would be no discrimination, but regulating discrimination is equally as bad as rampant discrimination. Like I said in my original comment, it comes down to respecting others.

      • The discrimination laws should be based on unchangeable conditions not one that has sort of oozed into the diversity arguments. Everybody that is black cannot change to white but a gay person can change from homosexual to heterosexual to both.

      • It is a choice, coupled with mental illness. We don’t accept sociopaths or rapists, why do gays think their perversions should get special privileges? Gays should be loved and accepted as people but that does not mean you have to accept their behavior. If you had a child who acted out at the grocery store, would you accept their behavior? Would you say, he was just born bad. No you would love him and try to get him to change his behavior

      • Safety, the Bill of rights gives us the right to practice our religion. I doesn’t say anything about allowing perversions. Perversion is not a right, religion is. When your wants infringe on my rights, your wants don’t have standing. Gays have the same right all straight people have. They are within their rights to marry, one man and one woman. Same as us.

    • As a former teacher, I predict following this path will lead to about 40% of an average public school classroom filled with traumatized children.

      • Children on the whole, do better with a mother and a father. They do poorly with only one parent, and though not enough statistics are in, the contentious relationships involved with same sex cause immense problems for children to accept. In the first place, the same sex partners are determined to force others to accept them, and the chidren feel this demand. Thus, putting children in the homes of people who are trying to implement a new ideology of living, who are still unsure of their own lifestyle, are very poor at being role models.

      • I have seen kids who are raised in homes where they never had a Dad because the mothers wanted a baby but not a man (lesbians). It isn’t pretty.

      • Right now, lesbians force children to grow up without a father because they like women in bed. But it will be even worse when gay men start adopting children and molesting them. One in ten men statistically have molested a child…imagine when two perverts adopt a boy. And that IS what homosexual acts are : a perverse environment.