Trayvon Martin Nativity scene – political correctness runs amok

Photo: David Allen/Inland Daily Bulletin

I have only one word to describe this story: sacrilegious.

According to the Inland Daily Bulletin,

Nativity scenes have a few standard elements: a manger, swaddling clothes, happy parents, sheep, maybe the Three Wise Men. They don’t generally include Trayvon Martin.

But there he is, wearing a hoodie, a stream of blood pouring from his chest onto the straw-covered floor of the scene outside Claremont United Methodist Church, the holy family around him. “Easter and Christmas should be tied together. It’s all the same story,” artist John Zachary says.

However, that’s not the point — it’s the idea of equating Martin to the birth of Jesus Christ. Is Zachary’s underlying message that Trayvon Martin came into the world to die for our sins?

Apparently Zachary has been creating controversial Nativity scene displays outside his church for quite awhile, as the Daily Bulletin reports:

He has portrayed Joseph and Mary as a homeless couple in a ghetto neighborhood, as Iraq War refugees and as Mexican immigrants. Zachary has been attending the church for 15 years. When church leaders asked him to build a Nativity scene in 2007, he decided to focus on people who don’t have the “privilege” to enjoy typical Christmas traditions, he said.

Is this about how far we can push the envelope and the level of sensationalism? Zachary has succeeded in getting us to discuss his artwork. Should we demand this be taken down before the January 5th scheduled date? After all, it’s been up since early December. Is this part of the freedom of expression in America? Absolutely. Is it in poor taste? Certainly.

My question is, what kind of church is this? Being from down South, I can attest that this would likely never find acceptance.

So what do you all believe, should we just dismiss this and not give it attention or is this further proof that we are not just “Slouching towards Gomorrah,” but we’re on a full accelerated high speed “progression” towards it?

265 COMMENTS

  1. To me it is just how God and religion aren’t synonymous anymore. Religion has forgotten how to include the real teachings of the Bible and bringing in anything that will fill the pulpits. The country has certainly lost its sight on who God is.

  2. I’d like to know why, if he’s so cutting edge, He hasn’t done one of Muslim terrorists blowing up the Nativity? I double dog dare him. Other than that ignore him. He has the right to express himself, no matter how distasteful. And to start a big discussion just gives him the attention he craves.

    • The ‘artist’ should have included a bottle of the Purple Drank that Trayvon liked (why he went out for Skittles and Tes at 10:30 at night).

  3. We are at a full run, all down hill. This is disgusting to me and I would not have anything to do with a church which would allow such sacrilege on it’s property. Should we call for it’s removal, yes, but as Christians we must do it in a loving and peaceful manner. The bible teaches that if you see a brother in Christ going down the wrong road, you are to guide him back onto the right path, not judge, that’s God’s job.

  4. Religion has proven to be B U L L S H I T!

    The truth of God Almighty is a very different thing than “religion”.
    This scene was blasphemous, but not any more so than Xmas Dec 25th itself.

    God has been cheated out of Christianity! The teachings of the Bible are GROSSLY maligned today.

    The truth is spoken of as a lie, and a lie is spoken of as the truth!

    Good is Evil, Evil is Good.

    http://tinyurl.com/a4ew3om Daniel Project

    http://tinyurl.com/d4xl7u2 THE UNITED STATES AND BRITAIN IN PROPHECY

    http://tinyurl.com/8ubts3w Allah was a pagan deity long before Mohammed

      • yes if you want to put it that way

        religion is an organization

        The TRUTH is not an organization it is from God.

      • There is such a thing as religion, James tells us just what that is. James 1:26-27 (NASB)
        26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
        Religion is not bad, but false religion is bad. We know what is true by just reading the Bible and applying that to our lives.

      • Religion is not bad, it also offers fellowship and support to each other. In today’s day and age, we need all the support we can get. Not the shock and awe stuff this guy is doing.

      • He also taught his disciples to NOT forsake the gathering together of believers. This was so they could encourage one another and uphold on another in the faith. The gathering of believers (I.E. a Church)

      • Yes, that is very true. But remember that church is the people and not the building, so as long as one is in fellowship – home group or bible study – I think that works too. I have strayed away from going to church because many are just far too big and are little more than a place to dress up and go on Sunday. Most don’t even offer Sunday school anymore and I personally don’t like the home groups that have cropped up because they often times do not have a someone gifted in teaching and videos become the main source instead of bible study.

      • James 1:26-27 (NASB)
        26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless. 27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world

      • very true. Again he is not asking for religion, which is usually man made rules, but to follow the greatest command; love God and love your neighbors. It’s always about relationship – to God and to others. Thanks for sharing the verse

  5. This is sad…very very sad. Nothing compares to the birth of Christ, especially comparing him to a juvenile delinquent. Although his death was tragic, he was not the angel the media made him out to be either. So, we will pray for those that no longer follow his teachings in order to bring attention to themselves (and their church) instead of spreading the word of God.

  6. He is just a mentally ill artist. My problem is with the church which allows this sort of thing. He May have freedom to express himself. The church has freedom to say “not here”.

  7. That black Bastard was going to kill someone sooner or later he was a hood in a hoodie they don’t want to tell anyone or show the pictures but that’s not the point i find this very much a slap in the face to all Christians if you don’t feel that way then your not a Christian

    • That is not a true statement Brent. As Christians we are supposed to pray for those that lose their way, not to judge or hate them for it. The best thing we can do is to not share this story and give this man the attention he is obliviously seeking.

  8. Where’s the National Endowment for the Art? If they knew about this they’d be throwing millions of dollars at it. Or maybe they held back because it didn’t have enough feces and urine.

    • The United Methodist Church formally acknowledges that homosexuality is inconsistent with Christian teaching. Therefore, openly gay persons will not be ordained and ministers are forbidden to perform gay marriages. This is stated in the Book of Displine which governs all of Methodism. It’s been a hot button issue since 1972 but has withstood societal pressure.

  9. It doesn’t matter what I think. It is what the Father thinks. And this church has simply become a “whitened sepulcher, full of dead men’s bones.” Sacrilegious? Yes. Worthy of acknowledgment? No. In the end the artist will be keeping company with his “saviour” Trayvon, in hell.

    • It’s wrong to conclude that all Californians are of this mindset. We know there are some Christians there that do believe in the principles of The Bible. And maybe, not just Christians. I think there were more than just Christians that voted “Yes” to Proposition 8. We must be careful in what we say-“life and death in the tongue”.

      • That’s not how I read his comment. “Even satan has a church” speaks to me that satan has worshippers like Jesus has Christian disciples. I just don’t get that he’s specifically speaking of this church as satan’s.

      • Well who else would he be referring to? Jesus spoke of the Blind leading the Blind and all falling in the ditch. Well this church is being led by the blind and those who are following are blind as well.

      • Kim, all he said, “Even satan has a church” and then referred to CA. I agree some of the people that attended that church were being led by the “Blind”. And I said “some” because I think some people were offended by the Nativity scene and did leave the church. I just don’t think it applies to everyone in CA. Cool.

      • satan’s church as a whole, Roger. Just as most of the people I know that refer to Christ’s church are referring to not just the church I attend but the church Christ is coming back for. I can see we are just having different thoughts regarding the comment. So, I just say Peace to you, Roger. It’s all good an not really an issue.

  10. This isn’t a church that would allow this as it’s sacrilegious. Shame on this person for being so disrespectful that he would take Jesus out of this and put a thug in his place. There is no comparison between Jesus and Martin as Martin was a thug who did drugs and talked about shooting people. Jesus came into the world as a baby to pay for the sins of all people..

  11. He has drawn attention to himself… looking for a niche. He has been successful in that regard. His art makes no sense to me. Cutting edge for some is throwing together a few concepts in a stew would be my assessment.

  12. It is plain that this church has changed what God’s word really teaches. They would do well to listen to the apostle Paul in Galatians 1:6-9 (NASB)
    6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
    Notice the first time Paul said angel and the next time he said man. That just about covers everything. Please people just read the Bible and do only what it says.

    • huh!!!!!i was thinking that same scripture gal 1 6-9, these churches, some of them are dead, if they took out jesus and taken the blood out, rest assured those churches are dead or the verge of extinction

  13. Though I certainly don’t put Trayvon on a par with Jesus Christ, I am leaning toward thinking “outside” the box. Jesus has always been about people! It’s too easy for people to become “religious”, and focus on “do this”, “don’t do that”, and miss altogether what, or better yet who, He died for! He said, “what you do unto the least of these” you do unto Me! Somewhere, somehow, this has largely been lost to “bless me and mine”. On the surface, this scene looks sacriligious, and I really don’t like it, but, if it makes people think “outside” the box, and change to focusing on the “essentials”, it will have had it’s place. Trayvon is a symbol of the deep division that exists within many; a division that MUST be dealt with! Look for opportunities to be “united”, not in compromise of conviction, but in recognition of differences in perception!

    • My concern with this is that Trayvon Martin is being turned into a martyr and placed in a religious light, when he was a pot smoking thief, What kind of message is being sent to children? Trayvon is equal with baby Jesus. The people in the nativity scene were there to worship the Son of God and this is a memorial for the blessed event of Jesus being born to die on the cross. And yes that includes Trayvon but that is something that could be approached elsewhere. This sends a very confusing message for children and especially for youth…because it takes away the importance of Jesus birth. The most important event of the world should not be used for this guys current events project.

    • This piece will not help heal division. I contend it will bring more division. Not only that but it was the thinking so far “out the box” that has allowed such atrocities to go unchecked. And, No, “This scene will certainly NOT cause Father God to fall off the throne!” But it will certainly cause some brothers and sisters in Christ to stumble (Rom 14:21).

  14. Since this display has been up since Dec I guess the leaders of the Methodist church do not have a problem w/it!! I also assume most of the public doesnt have a problem with it either since we havent heard anything on the news (or F.B – other than you F.B article, Mr West). Wonder if the leaders of the Methodist church will act or say something about this when more people hear about it?! I guess the media and public only gets outraged when Christians like Phil Robertson, tell the TRUTH !!!

  15. Just one more step in the wrong direction for America prior to the return of the Lord. He will not be so smug when he meets his Maker. He obviously doesn’t know Him.

  16. When I was a kid, it was the Methodist Church that was so devout, they didn’t even allow dancing. Now, they are almost as liberal as Unitarians, the Church that enabled Madelyn Murray O’Hare in every city she went to, according to her son Bill. The Methodist Church I went to in MD had yoga & the demonic parts, not just the stretching exercises. I brought this up, but was laughed at for such thinking. You can’t give the devil an inch, or he will take over. We’ve lost the official Episcopal, Methodist and Lutheran Churches, although there are still a few holdout congregations.

    • marahnatha, it looks like Pope Francis is going to take the Catholic church in the same direction as the Episcopal, Methodist, and Lutheran churches, as fast as he can.

      • You do realize that the Catholic church has not followed the Bible in 1500 years. They allow there ministers to be called father. Jesus said to not call any man father because we have one father who is in heaven. They forbid eating meat on certain days and Paul said that was a sinful thing to do. They do not allow ministers to marry which the Bible also condemns. I could go on but that is enough.

  17. When I read this article and seen the work he had done in the past, a scripture came to mind: Matt 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    By replacing Jesus with the least of these it brings focus of what we do to each compared to what we should be doing if it were Jesus.

    I cannot speak as to whether Trayvon is the least of these, but I can say what this work of art said to me.

    • Kim that verse you sited has nothing to do with TM. This guy was a thug and there is no argument there. That is the fact. He chose that life and what we don’t know is how many of God’s true children talked with this guy giving him a chance to repent. By his lifestyle we know he did not repent. The principle we know that goes you live by the sword you die by the sword is true. Just look at all the young people dying as a result of the lifestyle they have chosen. This verse applies to Christians who do minister to those who saw the hungry, and fed them, or thirsty, and give them something to drink, seeing a stranger, and invite them in, or naked, and clothing them, or seeing someone sick or in prison, and visiting them. As I said before, we don’t know how many faith people talked to TM to get him to change his ways. We have to obey Jesus and His word. This guy chose to live by the sword. I am sad to say he died by that lifestyle. His fate is sealed. This nativity scene which is to represent hope does not accomplish that at all.

      • That is a strong statement about all people. I agree there were mistakes made by both that night. I see that. But, that is not the issue at hand. TM is being made the issue, even by you. The issue is what this artist is doing to denigrate or lessen what the birth of Christ means. What is shown is an attack upon Jesus by Satan against his arch-enemy, Jesus Christ, through a liberal artist and liberal church. You need not “feel for me” rather, I need to feel for you. Your thinking is not clear concerning this issue and the meaning of God’s word. Hopefully many will pray for you.

    • All of us need to pray for Kim’s eyes to be opened concerning the offense of this display. It is not art! It is sacrilegious – to say the least!

      • I shall also pray for eyes to be open to see Jesus as more than a ceramic baby in a manger but as people who we walk passed everyday who are suffering from the lack of love and spiritual indifference. If you cannot see that Trayvon was the stranger that George knew nothing about before following him, I feel for you. Of course I know all the details of both their characters now, but when this happened TM was just a stranger walking down the street, being followed by someone he didn’t know either.

      • Kim, I have no problem with what you just said regarding that night, George and TM. I just cannot understand how it is relative to the Nativity. That is where I would like you to help me understand your point of view. I really am not trying to be a wise guy. Just looking to understand.

    • Well, unfortunately this is not about past works he’s done. This is about the present work he’s done. All I can say is…WOW! I cannot believe a church actually condones this piece enough to actually display it. We are in Trouble if we think this is okay or we try to somehow rationalize it being okay. IMHO It is not okay to treat Christ’s birth so recklessly and then try to say it’s all in the name of art.

      • You would say the same thing about the past work as well, because the image of Christ is more important than the works of Christ then the message of Christ. If people really think that George treated TM as a Saint would they are sadly mistaken.

    • Mathew 25:40 is so far away from the applying to the thug, TM, I cant believe you think it applies here. This is not a work of art. It’s not only sacrilegious, but border line blasphemy!

      • Actually if you read my post I said, that I didn’t know if it apply to Trayvon, but that was what spoke to me. the artist may disagree with you as to whether or not HE believes he was the least of these.

    • “Art” has a place in our society, and at times, shock value is warranted. BUT, this display goes far beyond getting a conversation going, or getting us to “think” about how Jesus Himself expected us to respond to His sacrifice, once we accept it, in the way we treat others.

      There is nothing sacrosanct about a Nativity, which is “Art” to begin with. But, it proclaims a reality which has importance beyond measure. The God of the universe became human. As you state, Kim, the artist has “replaced” Jesus. By placing ANY other person in the Nativity, and then explicitly labeling the display with Scripture about the Promised Messiah, (“Unto us…” from Isaiah 9:6,) causes this to deteriorate from artistic expression into blasphemy. It does nothing to enhance the Truth of the Message, it debases it.

      “Thou shall not have any other gods before Me.” Exodus 20:3

      “I AM the Way the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” John 14:6

      Jesus’s claims are audacious in their own right, in that He proclaims Himself to be none other than God in human form. To place someone else in His stead crosses a very clear line, and undermines just Who Jesus is.

  18. I think the less attention paid to this the better.

    But, what I can not believe is that the people of that Christian Church would condone this. What are they thinking?

  19. It is not surprising that something like this would come from California. Though Satan himself would have us be distracted from the truth of God’s word, we must examine our own selves. The facts are that Jesus is no longer in a manger; He is king of Kings and Lord of Lords, and he will come again in the clouds, and when He comes he will gather the elect from the 4 corners of the world. We must make sure we find ourselves “in Christ”, when the separation comes.

    • yes I agree with your statement. Very biblical and a true statement. Matthew 24:44 (NASB)
      44 “For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

  20. So many people work really hard to get Nativity scenes out of public places, but they seem to have no problem with TM being in a Nativity scene. Yes, it is blasphemy.

  21. If I belonged to that church, I would probably leave it immediately. Jesus was sinless and came to save us. TM was a youth with many problems and only cared for himself. There is no comparison and this is blasphemy to the very core. Disgusting that anyone would treat Jesus like this that calls themselves a Christian.

  22. I tend to agree with BobC in Chicago. Less attention on this, the better. A bunch of nonsense if you ask me. But thank you for the info 🙂

  23. Just start emailing the church this question…Do you and the church believe that Treyvon Martin came into this world to die for our sins?

    Christians are being ignored because we are not being heard…

  24. anything that takes the focus from Jesus is wrong. I don’t care what ” good intentions ” you try to tie to it…in the end it is no different then Israel and the Golden calf….something being placed where GOD should be. Jesus said ” in the last days men would no longer endure sound doctrine but, wanting to gratify their own desires, turn aside to worshiping myths and lies.”

  25. They simply have a twisted worldview, no understanding of the Gospel and are simply children of their father, the devil! Clear apostasy!

  26. This is sick. I hope someone takes it down and runs over it with a car about 10 times. Disgusting. The guy who does these controversial manger scenes should be hung up by his balls until they rot off and he falls to the ground on his head. Maybe that will knock some sense into him. Trayvon Martin was NOT an innocent kid. He was a hood.

    • Not so sure that is how Jesus would have thought to handle this situation, Kim. Not so sure that is how He would have wanted us to handle it either…just saying.

      • I agree that Sally’s visceral response is a bit much, however, as a CHURCH we cannot tolerate this in the name of Jesus! Recall Jesus becoming demonstrative about his feelings in the Temple.

      • I do recall, Marie. But turning over a few tables and calling them thieves is not quite the same as what Sally has in mind. We still have to look at Christ overall response to those that offended. He used The Word to combat even when He turned over the tables.

      • Yes, He threw them out. He did not hang them by their balls. He again would more than likely quote The Word and toss them if He really considered this particular church His Father’s house. The Temple was the Temple-we are now the Temples. That is just my understanding.

  27. We live in a world where there are many who have there own Messiah’s. Barbra Walters wanted Obama to be her Messiah. This is California, excuse me Kalifornia, they live to promote anything that goes against decency and to mock people who have normal values!

  28. In the United States of America this is called Freedom of Speech. I find it amazing how many of us forget this when it is something we don’t like being said or displayed or whatever. But when it is something we agree with that offends others we scream Freedom of Speech. When we discuss out rights please remember that our rights our individual rights. Nothing else. I am a veteran just like Colonel West and when I signed my life to protect this country I didn’t only sign up to protect those Americans that agree with me or believe what I believe. I signed away my life for everyone’s individual rights. I don’t like this scene anymore than anyone else. So what. I don’t have to look at it.

    • Not one time did I say that he couldn’t do that. The constitution of the United States may say I can say or do these things, but God in His word oh no you can’t. This is a “church.” I use that word very loosely. If you are going to say you are a Christian church then you can not do what this church has done. God is our leader period!

    • I want to thank you for your services and you are right and I don’t agree with the church nativity scene Trayvon Martin. has nothing to do with the birth of Christ .this used to be the land of the free and the home of the brave but some where its become the home of the scared and land of the offended respect and Honor is gone. the pledge of allegiance was taken out of our school its not merry christmas its happy holidays the kid’s have a new game its called the knock out game I could go on and on but I have all ready said enuff

    • Where to begin; people often mix apples with oranges when they speak of first amendment rights and tolerance. NO ONE says the government should require this to be taken down; quite the opposite. What is being discussed is how ignorant and downright blasphemous this display is. The only thing depicted in this manger should be a baby that represents Jesus Christ. If it was Easter and they had Trayvon on the cross, that would be the same thing. This church is free to express whatever it is they are attempting to express here, but CHRISTIANS should rise up against it. It is blasphemy at best, and idolatry at worst.

  29. Leave it up. It serves as a warning to the rest of their community that those people are out of their minds. The Bible does say, “Mark those that cause division among the brethren.” They have marked themselves as ignorant crazies.

  30. I’m an atheist and I think it is very disturbing. Isn’t there a national Methodist organization that would frown upon this. How can this be a real church if it allows and promotes sacrilege on it’s grounds? This is not art. This is an outright slap in the face of Christianity.
    Yes. I am an atheist but, I respect others right to believe and worship how they will. I am an American that has dedicated my entire adult life upholding the Constitution of the United States of America.

      • It’s just the way it is Kim. Either you feel it or you don’t. I was raised Catholic and have been to many different churches. I just never felt “it” and a person needs to feel “it” to be true to themselves and the religion they choose.

      • The eternal danger you are in is great. Jesus never asked us to feel him just believe and trust in Him. Satan’s great lie is that you are to feel Jesus, but the Bible never says that. We must trust and obey. Do you believe that a man named Jesus lived some 2000 years ago and died on a cross?

      • And religion? He respects Christians and their views. Please respect his. He is one of the few that is not asking to take any cross down.

      • we are free to believe or not to believe his reasons are as personal to him as yours are to you He does not have to explain why to anybody

      • Well now, don’t you think he is big enough to answer for himself? Why do you think you have to intervene for him? I just asked a simple question, I ask that question when someone tells me they do not believe in God.

      • Rose, Roger is about His Father’s work. And that too should be respected if you are professing Christ as your Father. Pendragon has the ability to tell Roger to go stuff it if he so desires. This may be an appointed time for both he and Roger to meet & talk. Personally, I think Roger respects His Father and Pendragon enough to give him the good news. I believe Roger is following the Father’s commission to us.

      • Jesus is not our Father. He is our Savior. He is our Brother, Friend, and is the Propitiation for our sins. His Father is our Father and He, The Father, is God Almighty. We are to pray to the Father in Jesus’s name. Never pray to Jesus or to a so called saint. The living members of His body are the saints. His church is us!

      • Okay, we’re going to have some doctrinal differences. I won’t debate that with you. But, I’m here to tell you, Jesus is the ONLY Father I have known. And He will continue to be my Abba Father! I like the relationship I have with Him and that is not going to change.

      • Soooo, just what do you say about Steven in Acts 7 praying to Jesus? Because that is a prayer he gave right there. Was he wrong? Also Jesus said the Father and I are One. I truly do not understand how that can be, but I accept it. I know Jesus is God but not the Father and the Father is not the Son, but both are God. the Holy Spirit is God as well but not the Father or Son. But to say we are not to talk to Jesus is something I just don’t agree with.

      • I would think that most Christians wonder at one time or another, although I doubt many would say so. Yes I am a Christian. A Christian to me is someone who believes in God & Jesus, who makes mistakes & sometimes (well, maybe a lot of times 🙂 ) says the wrong thing, who gets angry & upset, who questions God, begs God to answer a prayer (but wants that answer to be one that we want or understand), who prays, talks to & thanks God & Jesus, knows right from wrong, believes the entire Bible and that it may have been written by mans hand but it is the inspired word of GOD. As a Christian I know that I have to ask God daily for forgiveness. Its hard to remember sometimes, that just because your a Christian your days arent going to be easier. In fact, thats when satan tries your patience a little more!! Not long ago when I reached my last straw & prayer wasnt “working”, doubt creeped in saying “why bother? If God was there, why is He letting “all this ” happen!!” Thankfully, my next thought was….”If He were not there, how/why would the pros be able to verify & discover all the things they have? What relics would be matched exactly to the Bible?”! Being a Christian & being religious is two different things. Some days its hard to hang on to hope & faith. But thats all you have to do…..hang on!!!

    • Well said. I hope you find God in your heart like this former Atheist did.. even in other religions I would be disturbed. And Trayvon was no a good kid..

  31. Churches get some significant tax-exempt considerations over and above other 501 (c)(3) organizations, providing they don’t engage in politics, electioneering, etc. I would defend this (not even lukewarm) “church” to express it’s socio-political opinion as a First Amendment right, but would likewise suggest that they should lose their classification as a “church” for tax purposes. Money talks.

  32. This is blasphemy and these people are not followers of the Lord Jesus for sure ,sounds like a Sharpton and Jackson ”church” When one stops breathing they will believe in God and it won’t be an invite to Heaven, too late.

  33. Another Messiah is not needed nor are anymore false gods Jesus is enough for all of us. Wake the hell up. Though their may be many cultural and color issues there is ONLY ONE race THE HUMAN RACE When will you join it? Jesus said I am all things to ALL men However you wish to see him he is but Trayvon he is not nor any other

    • I would love to read where Jesus said ” I am all things to ALL men However you wish to see him he is.” I see we must conform to His way of thinking not the other way around.

      • Jancey was that Christ or the Apostle Paul? I believe that was the Paul talking about how he changed his behaviors that he might draw some to Christ.

      • Jancey that clearly is Paul speaking and not Jesus. In context the Pericope goes like this, “1 Corinthians 9:20-23 (NASB)
        20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law;
        21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
        22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.
        23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

  34. The church has every right to display this, even though most of us may think it is poor taste. However, each of us has a right to bypass this church, urge our friends and families to shun it, because we think it is offensive….

    • “It’s a UM church on the west coast” would be better to say! Some UM churches in liberal areas are like that. Not all UM churches are! Many are quite conservative and would never allow something like that!!! I agree with Col. West–this is sacrilegious!

      • Well, I know of several UM churches in my area (NC) that are very liberal and are pushing social issues which are not in alignment with the teachings in the Bible. Maybe not all UM churches go along with the liberal masses, but for the most part, that’s what I have seen.

  35. Legal, yes, technically……. but it is pure blasphemy in the eyes of God. I suspect the sensible parishioners of this church will put a stop to it pretty quickly. If not, then they deserve the wrath that will come upon them for allowing it.

  36. distorted visions……I would not call this a church if they allow such crap…… as for Travyon I wish someone would pull his records a post it all over the internet…. this child was far from angelic……..

  37. “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear” – 2 Timothy 4:3

  38. I wouldn’t honor Trayvon Martin, even if he was my kid. BTW, not one of my kids got all tatted up or had the behavior that scum portrayed. One less thug is good.

  39. I believe this artist saw this as an opportunity to get publicity from the liberal community and now liberals will probably throw donations to the church, and unfortunately we might have to suffer viewing more of this artists work. God Bless America, Israel, the NRA and all Real Freedom Fighting Patriots.

  40. This is just someone expressing something. At least it’s peaceful. The response of the ones it offends is peaceful. Let us take an image or seen from an important part of Islamic religion, attach something that offends them. Lol….not gonna happen, because then you are a racist hater. It’s all building up. This will only go on so long.

  41. remember, Jesus said when they arrive he will say “i never knew you” and they will know then that they really screwed up …. a bright day for those Jesus says “welcome”

  42. Now I know where NOT to ATTEND a certain CHURCH in California or a Certain Denomination where Rogue Pastors preach not about our Father in Heaven or his Beloved Son, but Events that have “NO BEARING” on the BIRTH of our Savior.

    SHAME on this Pastor, and his Church Following that support this “CRAP”.

    The Church has taken a path where I hope they can’t recover the losses they will get from this Horrible Message.

  43. I see this as a stupid attention getter. Well that worked and I do suport their right to put up what ever seen they want but I know I would never attend such a church.

  44. Terrible thing to mock the Lord Jesus Christ. Those responsible will be held accountable. The Lord Jesus is the one and only who died for our sins! God, please forgive these people for they know not what they do.

  45. Satan joined the ‘church’ scene long ago, in his effort to bastardize the holy places and turn people away from what is true and good. I don’t think I will ever be surprised again when I meet an evil gossip-monger or a man on the hunt for a child to molest while I am at church. This kind of thing happens all the time. God warns us that we need to be on the lookout for wolves in sheep’s clothing and in my 20+ years of being a Christian I have met many of them and seen the wakes of their destruction. Fortunately, I have been at strong churches who have withstood and triumphed over these people.

    When I was at first hoodwinked by some of these people and thought of them as friends, it saddened me. Now God has given me a keen awareness and ‘radar’ to such, as these, which has benefitted and saved me from being hurt by them as well as allowed me the freedom to befriend those who are truly righteous and loving. I pray that God will continue to give this good/evil filter to those who truly seek Him, as there are too many so-called Christians who are still having the wool pulled over their eyes and believe the liberal lies which even require God to be held to their standards of what is right and wrong.

  46. Really? The Son of God compared to a thug, drug using, fighting, thief, that attacked a man violently, and was suspended from School for stealing, and posts these wonderful actions on his Facebook.
    They many want to invest in a lightning rode for their roof.

    • Outside the grace of God, we are all “thugs” as you would like to put it. Its hard to be witnesses of the gospel to the lost with that kind of holier than thou atittude. You are said by grace, not by you own righteousness. I agree it was in poor taste, but the thug part went over the top.

      • Of course, I understand this. It is by grace, belief, faith, action, and obeying God. Treyvon Martin, was no role model, was not a mortar for a great sacrifice. I am not attacking another person, I am reflecting that the church is making a bad decision to allow anything changed to an original Nativity scene. Treyvon was a thug, through and thrug and it is sad that he died and that his murder was defending himself (should have stayed in the car). As a replacement for our Lord and Savior. Even comparing him to Martin Luther King. That is a slap in the face to our progress of Civil Rights and Unity.
        The media did a great job in making Treyvon’s death to a racial issue and the people bought into it. I did my research. The media lied and twisted words (NBC) and then the race baiters, Jackson, Sharpton, Holder, Oprah, and Obama came out of the works to talk about it. No one was really talking about the person, just the murder. Treyvon got suspended from school for theft. Was carrying 2 ingredient to make “LEAN” an intoxicating substance, and bragged about fighting and stealing on his FB. So, if any man deserves to be be in the Nativity scene, please tell me who can fill the Lord’s shoes (sandals).
        I am just concerned that a Church thought this was okay. The football games, the schools that tried to make a day for Treyvon, were shut down, because, people actually figured it all out after their anger calmed and realized they were played by the media. Nothing new there.

      • So, Jesus, that was with out sin, is now replaced by a regular person. That makes it even worst. If you are referring to how we treat God and shun Him and don’t obey Him. I still find it very out of touch with what the scene is all about, the Birth of Christ. So, you are saying we killed Christ because of our sin. He took upon him all the sins of the world, but a hoodied thug bleeding out of his chest is now okay?

      • He was a thug, and certainly cannot be compared to Christ, what really gets me scratching my head about the majority of blacks is if a black commits some kind of evil againt a white person which happens nearly every day you all go into protection mode for the perpetrator justifying them saying that they are doing because they are disadvantaged or its payback to the white man. Well as a student of global history and seeing that everyone has mistreated someone at any given point of time I believe that you all are behaving like pathetic little children. During the slave years the negro compared himself to the Jew but unlike the negro the Jew just wasn’t enslaved for a few hundred years, the Jew has suffered evey thing from slavery to genocide for nearly 4500 years and we don’t see them whinging and behaving like second class citizens instead they pick themselves up and forge ahead the negro could learn a lot from the Jew if only they would drag themselves from their perpetual selfpity bandwagon.

      • Wow…How dare attack me on race. Where in my comment did I say anything about race??? All I said was that outside the grace of God, We are all like Trayvon Martin. He is no worse than we are because if it were for our own righteousness, we would all be doomed. I dont see where “you all go into protection mode” is coming from. You dont know me, and you know nothing about me. So please stop stereotyping me. I am a first generation African-American, I moved here willingly. so Please, Address me as a human being, not for my race.. That was totally uncalled for.

      • Of all the issues, murder, guns, and crimes, we get them mostly from the media. They can and do turn it into what ever creates revenue and if they twist the words, or change a thing or two, they just apologize. But the Trayvon case was changed from a murder trial, to a race war, when there were no grounds for it. The media did this, then big names did this, and people are too ignorant to actually go read the full truth and transcripts from the case, and the back ground on the individuals involved. Look at director, Spike Lee, tweeting the address of the family and then the wrong family and they were threatened and harrassed. (He should be in jail, for endangering civilians. Did he do the right thing? My whole point is. People need to stop – read – review – and make THEIR own sensible decision of what is right or wrong and not follow others or the media. We pay the media when we follow them. They will only pay us if we are the headlines.

  47. How can a so-called church condone this? It’s blasphemy and sacrilegious. Equating the birth of Christ with a thug. Why are they mixing race and politics with a sacred religious time?

  48. So, just what kind of “church” is this? The artist, John Zachary has attended church there for 15 years, so they felt “obligated” to allow this sacrilegious act?

  49. Given this display coupled with his choices of previous nativity scenes, I’d hazard a guess he’s got some ‘white guilt’ going on.

  50. In this country, we have the right to have our own opinion and also to voice that opinion. A piece of artwork is the artist’s opinion. We don’t have to agree with that opinion and we also have a right to voice our opinion. I certainly do not agree with the opinion of this particular artist. This “artwork” is similar to the mural done by the Vietnamese artist and the painting depicting George as a uniformed police officer wearing a KKK hood. I must denounce their opinions because they attempt to twist the truth in their artwork. I despise the main stream media in it’s attempt to do the same in their misreporting of facts.

  51. I have to wonder how the artist pitched this idea to the pastor and the congregation of that church. He must have put one heck of a spin on his explanation of the scene, because even if they support Trayvon Martin and mourn his death as a civil wrong, a Christian has to realize that this is sacrilege, and not an appropriate display for a Nativity scene. I have many Christian friends that are United Methodist Church members, and none of them that I know would even entertain the idea of such a sacrilegious scene, so it must be a rogue United Methodist Church, as some have suggested. It’s like the so-called “Westboro Baptist Church”, whose views are beyond extreme, and in no way represent the views of any recognized variant of the Baptist Church.

    • You nailed it. Scareligous at least. Christians aren’t attacking this church, we are attacking the artist for thinking this was okay, and if the church said yes! Then they are foolish and want attention. Maybe their attendance is down.

      • For Miley Cyrus or Lindsay Lohan, any attention is good attention….but for a Christian Church, that’s not the kind of attention anyone would want….taking the focus off of Christ, at Christmas time!! So I have to think that for some reason, they must have thought it was a good idea, at least at the time.

      • Agree. This is not good attention. Usually the Christians are understanding, compassionate, and tolerant, but disrepect the Nativity scene or a Cross, then we have a problem. I am over them already. They, like us as individuals will have to answer up for transgressions. Have a great weekend.

    • Wow! I see what you mean. God loves all, but he doesn’t love our SIN, is what separates us from God. Come one, come all. They asked for it.

    • W… T… F…???? Every member of the Methodist church should outcast this group. If this is the message of the Methodist Church, then, people are going to leave this religion in droves.

      • Outcast this group? I can tell you that, as a Christian, it is our duty to embrace ALL. Methodists are Christians….and whether or not you agree with their “policy” or not….they have every right to preach to whomever they want. I don’t agree with the Nativity scene…..but I don’t remember Jesus ever saying YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE!!!!

      • Are they A-Okay? Nope….they are a bunch of lunatics, however, they are covered under the First Amendment to be allowed to say whatever they want. I believe that banning ANY and ALL protests from the grounds of a private funeral is the right thing to do but I cannot and will not limit their freedom of speech, unless it incites riots, just because I do not agree with them. If you take that away from them, you take it away from ALL.

  52. Attention getting. Attendance might be down and they decided it might spark interest in some people that might not ever come to church. Lets just put a big “X” in Christmas or take down a cross of the hills because its only been their for 50 years and the ones complaining are only 20 or 30 years old. It Freedom. Let them do as they please. There is all sorts of crazy in the world and they just found some.

    • Here is what I find interesting. We all agree that the United Methodist
      Church is a religion. It sounds like many in this discussion, except for
      one, says that they are christian. Yet because one religion, who
      believes in God, says something a bit different than your belief system
      then THEY are wrong, said now to be crazy,rogue,filled with white guilt
      & sacreligious. The conversation should be, that in America 70 % of
      the people do not attend any type of church or associate with any type
      of religion whatsoever. I would venture to guess that many who do not attend a church would say that they are Christian, as the many in this thread are stating; But what does that mean. It sounds like to me that to be Christian you must believe the way “I do” or your not.

      • To Pondering Christians: It’s not what Christians believe or don’t believe; it’s about what the Bible states. Christianity is not a religion, but a relationship with Jesus Christ; it’s not about what church you go to, but who you know.

      • Excuse me….this does NOT represent Methodists as a whole, period. I grew up in a Methodist church and this would never have been accepted. This is not about the denomination of the church, it’s about the complete disrespect for what the Nativity scene represents. You are also wrong about 70% not attending church or associating themselves with religion, 78.4% of Americans consider themselves Christian. Get your facts straight please.

      • Sorry this always jams on me?
        The earliest church, church actually meaning a gathering of people, not a building were followers of Christ and were later changed from decouples to Christians
        As a Christian, I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and accept Him as my Lord and Saviour
        Saying this, I have attended many churches, As It. Say in the Bible it is hard to keep the faith on your own and to seek like minded people,
        Religion is man made! And every one of the founders has had a good revelation from God but being human people tend to go overboard, mess up and can lead to false teachings!
        Jesus came to save the world and not condemn it!
        Put your faith and eyes upward towards Him, and you will be on the right path!
        After saying this …The Christian Way of celebrating and Honoring the Gift God sent to us, so all mankind could be saved is very sacred to us!
        And this person, along with many others, is allowed to mock OUR Christmas Traditions!
        Standing in a garage does not make you a car! Neither does standing in a Church make you a Christian!
        God has no Grandchildren! To actually take the name Christian, ? You have to built a relationship with the Christ we are called after!
        God also tells us, Many from many different places and churches will go to heaven! If you make it? You might be astonished at who you see!
        And Christ is coming like a thief in the night to claim HIS CHURCH ! No one but the Father knows when?

      • This is well written and I agree that we should not take away or discourage anyone from attending Church. With the thread, the Christians here are only agree at the disrespect of putting a thug in the Nativity scene. That is pretty much.all. Yes, you will get attacks and threats but in the end, God is the One that will decide. These are just our opinions. Merry Christmas, God Bless, Happy New Year to ALL.

  53. If I lived there I would go correct it myself out of respect for The Lord Jesus. People want to avoid disrespecting anyone except Jesus. As a Methodist I am embarrassed by this church.

  54. Typical California whacko… Ignore the facts – Travon was a common juvenile deliquent… He was no angel, and he as much responsible for what happened as the guy who killed him. This is an outrage…

      • Not the same situation, and wouldn’t matter if he was… Near as I can tell, his only ‘transgression’ was being in the wrong place at the wrong time… The guy who shot him was looking for a reason to shoot… If it was up to me, the shooter would have been removed from the gene pool a long time ago…

  55. I knew it had to be a Methodist church. They stopped following God and joined the great whore, the false church several years ago.

    • any Church that states as part of its official doctrine that it supports a woman’s right to choose to kill her unborn baby is a false Church.

      • I don’t know of any Methodist church that has any official doctrine supporting the right to kill an unborn baby. I also know Methodist churches that are evangelical and leading people to Christ. I think you are severely mistaken.

      • Yes, I was a member of a United Methodist Church until 6 years ago and still in touch with members there. They certainly do not support the killing of unborn babies, but they do reach out to those who have had abortions and feeling shame or grief, so that they might be healed.

      • Abortion – The beginning of life and the ending of life are the God-given boundaries of human existence. While individuals have always had some degree of control over
        when they would die, they now have the awesome power to determine when and even whether new individuals will be born. Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion.
        But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother, for whom devastating damage may result from an unacceptable pregnancy. In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures. We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection. We oppose the use of late-term abortion known as dilation and extraction (partial-birth abortion) and call for the end of this practice except when the physical life of the mother is in danger and no other medical procedure is available, or in the case of severe fetal anomalies incompatible with life. We call all Christians to a searching and prayerful inquiry into the sorts of conditions that may warrant abortion. We commit our Church to continue to provide nurturing
        ministries to those who terminate a pregnancy, to those in the midst of a crisis pregnancy, and to those who give birth. We particularly encourage the Church, the government, and social service agencies to support and facilitate the option of adoption. Governmental laws and
        regulations do not provide all the guidance required by the informed Christian conscience. Therefore, a decision concerning abortion should be made only after thoughtful and prayerful consideration by the parties
        involved, with medical, pastoral, and other appropriate counsel.

        They are not advocating along side planned parenthood but they are saying it is an acceptable practice allowable to Christians. So yes they do support abortion.
        http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3030214/posts

  56. I grew up in a Methodist Church and have been a Baptist for the last 45 years. My point is that this church is no more a Methodist Church as Westboro Baptist Church is Baptist. They are both a church in name only and not a Church in the way GOD wants them to be. Both Claremont and Westboro belong in the same category as Sodom and Gommorah.

    • Except Westboro is an Independent church and answers to nobody. This is a United Methodist. I’m sending a letter to their HQ.

      • exactly. Westboro is NOT recognized by any Baptist organization. The UMC on the other hand has had a nationally open pro socialist agenda for yrs now.

  57. My own experience with several methodist “churches” reflects the same discurticy as Proud2bfromtheUSA mentions. There have been national reports of odd things in different methodist churches across the states. THIS should shock even them. God really doesn’t suffer fools for long. Ask the builder of the Titanic who said that the ship was so safe “even God himself couldn’t sink her.”, just before her maiden voyage.

  58. I’d say leave it alone. He obviously knows the difference and cares not to adjust to telling the truth that surely he mocks. Leave it to God.

    • I claim to be a Christian, I wish I could be a true Christian but I am trying to figure out were my faults are, and there are a lot. That being said I agree with you Joy, we need to leave it to God. Aren’t we Hypocrites if we start spewing judgement from our mouths? God’s message is to love everyone including your enemies. And James 1: 19-20

      • God does tell us to judge rightly. He even told us not to cast pearls before swine. We as Christians have many battles , for me, this is not one of them.

  59. As a Methodist I accept the obvious fact that many Methodist congregations have lost all connection to Christianity. They are social clubs pushing a socialist agenda that completely violate the teachings of Jesus.

  60. This is for “pondering Christian”: There is only ONE Savior and there is only one Church of God which may include many different denominations comprised of, only, those who believe and worship that Jesus Christ is God and that “no man goes to the Father except through Him”, Jesus Christ. And, as I understand it, Christianity is NOT a Religion but Christianity is and must be a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ rather than a set of ceremonials and rituals that are performed by man. Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and the Holy Spirit is God left with us as the “Comforter” and is, also, God. This I believe.

    • Jesus isn’t God in the Flesh. The bible said “he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him should have ever lasting life” No where does it say that God came here in the flesh. I have a Husband & a son. Are they interchangeable? No they are not. Begotten means just what it says. Read the begats in the bible if you are still confused on that point. Were those sons their father in another form? No they weren’t. Teach the truth if you are going to teach!

      • John 1:1- In the beginning (before all time) was the Word (Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself.
        John 1:14 – And the Word (Christ) became flesh (human, incarnate) and tabernacled (fixed His tent of flesh, lived awhile) among us; and we (actually) saw His glory (His honor, His majesty), such glory as an only begotten son receives from his father, full of grace (favor, loving-kindness) and truth.
        John 10:30 – I and the Father are One.
        John 8:32 – And you will know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.

      • They are one in their agenda. The father, the son and the holy spirit work together for one goal, but they are three individuals

  61. Demand it be taken down. Christians have stood idle for Far Too Long and it’s past time we take a Stand for Christ and for what’s Biblically (not a proper word but, who cares) Correct. Because Christians choose to stick their heads in the sand to often this country is spinning out of control. We MUST take it back before it’s too late. It’s time to take a stand for Jesus as he took a stand for US. Take this monstrosity DOWN NOW!! The perverted and homosexuals get their way, Christians must demand we get our way. Good must conquer evil.

  62. Ridiculous! A pastor who allows this has to be a false teacher who is leading his sheep astray, a pied piper leading his sheep off the cliff.

  63. As a Christian and my family goes to a Methodist Church. I think the absent of Jesus is so wrong. This is Jesus’s Birth that we honor, not a shooting. This country has gotten away from the true meanings of things, and we will be judged for it aslo.

  64. No matter how hard anyone tries to not believe in the existence and power of God, or anyone trying to erase him will never succeed because God is Love and Love has come for us all! God is too powerful…do not give stuff like this energy. God Bless.

  65. I can only imagine the sorrow Christ feels over this, wondering why He’s been forsaken. Honestly, I don’t understand what this artist was trying to do. It doesn’t make sense to me. I am sorry to Trayvon’s parents for their loss. It was a tragedy that I pray I must never face. However, there can be no comparison between him and Jesus Christ. I am really confused…

  66. Just as LTC West asks; what kind of church is this? Well, I think it’s a church for Liberal Commie-Loving Pinkos who voted for obama, that’s what I think this church is about.
    Perhaps we ought to contact this church and ask them what they are about, make them explain themselves to the rest of us. Also wouldn’t hurt to let them know that their support of Commie Progressivism is not wanted in this Country, not even in California.
    Claremont United Methodist Church
    211 W. Foothill Blvd., Claremont, CA 91711
    Phone: 909-624-9021
    Fax: 909-624-7308
    Or…contact them at [email protected]
    Let them hear from America!

  67. This is a church that purports to be Christian, but fails to understand the first thing about Christianity. This is not about someone dying, but about Jesus Christ, the sinless Son of God, dying for our sins, and being raised to glory. He is coming back. I wouldn’t give this display the time of day.

  68. The whole so called church should be shut down or at least have the Christian label taken off. Perhaps you would all like to know that the Parents of Travon and Zimmerman are Freemasons and the Freemasons are behind the war on Christianity. Please do your homework before trolling this statement.

  69. No worse then the fantasy that Jesus and his familly were pink-skins with blue eyes … thevents have so become coirupt that Americans were outraged when Madonna featured the more historically and by over 80% of all Christians worldwide accepted Black Jesus in “Like A Prayer” …

    • Jesus on earth is neither white nor black but Arabic, the same “racial” group as the Palestinians, Arabs, and other cultural groups in Asia Minor; however, ALL people see Jesus in the image of themselves, which is appropriate because HE is for ALL people. STILL, to put a thug like T.M. in the place of Jesus is pretty repulsive (and whether or not G.Z. was correct in shooting him does not change the fact that T.M. was a thug). IF however T.M. was placed in the scene on his knees and praying to the baby Jesus perhaps along side of G.M., two sinners both in need of the salvation of Jesus, THAT would be a powerful message to the world.

      BTW, 80% of the world is NOT black, nor do 80% of all Christians see Him as black. And WHEN were Americans outraged when Madonna was shown as other than “white”. No time in my memory or in my husband’s memory. We were however outraged when she was painted in elephant dung, which if someone had done to Muhammad would have caused a major fatwa.

    • WHAT THE HECK? Jesus was NOT Black!!! What in the world makes you think someone who came from ISRAEL was ever BLACK?

      Saying this sort of nonsense proves your purposeful ignorance.

      80% of Christians worldwide shouldn’t CARE what Color he was!!

      Maybe you should make yourself part of the 20% that truly don’t care?

  70. Any person who finds this type of “free speech” acceptable but not that of Phil Robertson is a duplicitous idiot. Anyone who agrees with Phil Robertson but disagrees with this is labeled “intolerant” and “hater.” The truth of the matter is the Christian knows this type of behavior was actually prophesied about 2000 years ago. Those living it are too deceived to realize it! This is precisely why I sleep with two things on my nightstand. A Bible and a 40 S&W. The race-baiting haters of this world can TRY and take either…but they will NEVER succeed! Carry on…

  71. Like the good Colonel states, He has the right to create the art that he creates and if his church is okay with it. Fine, He will have to answer to Lord for it.

    This dude is the equivalent of a shock jock talk show host like Howard Stern, only less entertaining (even Howard Stern makes a good point now and then). He is the type of pseudo-intellectual jerk off engaging in mental masterbation. He isn’t a good artist, if he was a good artist, he wouldn’t have to resort to cheap theatrics to get noticed.

  72. While it might be a little premature to say there are no Christians left in the United Methodist Church (UMC), they have long been run out of Claremont college/seminary/church. This is just unbelievers doing what unbelievers do, mocking God. They need the gospel.

  73. Being origionally a Methodist from the State of Maine, our church would never ever allowed such sacriligeous behaviour or demonstration of irrevalence to the Bible. We were a rural small community of around 1000 peoples at the most. We had a following of approximately 100 people at our church. Now I live in Florida and have converted to the Baptist faith and belong to a church of 2,000 plus members. We have three services on Sunday morning each week and a dinner and various Bible studies on Wednesday nights.Our church would nevr consider nor allow such sacriligious behaviour or demonstration of irrelevance to the Bible. My point is this, in either religion, be it large or small, is sacrilege considered nor allowed! True beleivers in Crist would never behave as deciples to Satan!

  74. No, I wouldn’t ask the artist to take it down. He was told by the church leaders to do his art. Since this wasn’t the first time he’s done the same sort of thing for him, it bears to reason that they knew what they were getting. I think that if I were a member of ANY UMC church, I would be consulting every leader up the denominational chain, making complaint against these so-called leaders. This sort of display is not demonstrable of the church, nor the faith and it doesn’t enhance the faith of its members nor bring people to the faith of knowing the Jesus of the nativity. In other words, the leadership of this particular UMC church has failed miserably and should be at the very least chastised by the larger UMC organization, if not removed by them.

    The good thing to know is that somehow, God will get glory from this. His book says so.

  75. Why didn’t he use the 80 year old veteran that was beat to death by two black youths? The case of Travon is nothing more than made up by the media. He attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman defended himself within the law. The ignorance is abound.

    • Because OBAMA said so. Obama is the most ignorant and spreading the ignorance on purpose.

      Either this proves Obama is a straight hating Racist or he is blinded by Racism.
      one of the two.

  76. Hundreds are killed each week with black on black violence yet know one comes out .But for a thug the country morns ,What a sick country liberals have made it.

  77. “Should we demand this be taken down before the January 5th scheduled date?”

    No. We could have a public discussion about the difference between celebration and politicization. Zach isn’t celebrating Christ. He’s using Christ to preach in the public square like the Pharisee’s did – as a hypocrite.

    Zach is welcome, along with his church, to operate any way he wants to. My question would be why he chose to step on Jesus and the Word to talk politics instead.

  78. Welcome to Claremont United Methodist Church

    211 W. Foothill Blvd.
    Claremont, CA 91711
    909-624-9021
    [email protected]

    A reconciling and inclusive community responding to God’s love and grace. We seek God’s creative transformation of the world, and of individual hearts.
    “As faithful disciples of Jesus and His teachings, we advocate for the full inclusion and acceptance of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered persons and their families in the church and community.”
    Now, isn’t that SPECIAL?

    • Yup, special alright, and not biblical. We are to accept those in sin, but not their sin… Its like having people who are living a lifestyle of adultery and cheating on their wife and saying, “hey its okay that you are an adulterer, Christ accepts all”… Unfortunately that isn’t what the bible teaches. It’s NOT okay to live in sin but it is okay to rely on Jesus while being transformed and renewed from our sin.

    • They better check the Word of God and not what popular culture says. The ineptness of the Church as a whole is the reason why our nation is dead.

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