Secular humanists – and Barbara Walters – continue their assault on God

It’s beginning to look a lot like Winter Solstice. Yes, it’s the time of year when secular humanists come out and try to delegitimize, demean, and dismiss our Judeo-Christian faith heritage and our beloved celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Hat tip to our friends at BizPac Review as they report this from Florida:

The Christian group that unveiled a Nativity scene in Florida’s Capitol on Tuesday took it in stride Friday when an atheist organization erected its own display in the rotunda, wishing passersby a “Happy Winter Solstice.”

The display reads, “At this season of the Winter Solstice, we celebrate the birth of the Unconquered Sun — the TRUE reason for the season. As Americans, let us also honor the birth of our Bill of Rights, which reminds us there can be no freedom OF religion, without having freedom FROM religion in government.”

Gary Whittenberger, a Tallahassee resident and member of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, said the display was meant as alternative, secular viewpoint to balance the Christian and Jewish symbols on display during the holiday season.

I must ask you, our loyal and informed readers, do ya think if it was a Muslim Ramadan holiday display in the Florida Capitol rotunda Mr. Whittenberger would be so bold? Perhaps he would find his courage like the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz.

However, as BizPac points out, “there is a decidedly modern battle between church and state in the form of the Obama administration’s attempts to force Christian companies like Hobby Lobby to violate their religious beliefs. Hobby Lobby is a sponsor of the Florida capitol rotunda Nativity scene. And they are fighting a very real battle with the White House for religious freedom in this country.”

But it’s not just special interest groups who lay in wait for the Christmas season to launch their assault. The secular humanist entertainment elites are relentless as well.

Again, as reported BizPac, during a discussion on “The View,” senior matron Barbara Walters was concerned that most politicians use a Bible when taking the oath of office.

According to BizPac, when cohost Jane Seymour said “it’s really unfortunate when you have to bring religion into politics,” Walters replied: “That is very true but it starts almost with the oath of office which usually ends with “so help me God. “Now, most presidents swear on a Bible before taking office, even though we have the separation between church and state. You see it again and again. You don’t have to use a Bible. We talk about the separation between church and state and almost every president ends up saying so help me God,” Walters further grumbled.

But BizPac reporter Tom Tillison makes the point secular humanists continually miss:

“Walters fails to mention that the words “separation”, “church” and “state” do not appear in the First Amendment, or that when Thomas Jefferson first referenced the expression in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association of Connecticut, the wall he spoke of was to protect the church from the state.”

Why do secular humanists and progressives continue to miss that the concept of separation of church and state was intended to eliminate the possibility of a head of state being the head of church? It was a concept, not rooted in any founding document, and our first amendment right provides for the free exercise of religion.

But what progressive socialists want is the elimination — or the separation — of our faith heritage from who we are as Americans, in a Constitutional Republic where our unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit (not guarantee) of happiness come from a higher power, our Creator, God.

If the progressives can successfully reduce God to a commercial sideshow, then they replace God with a “big G” with government, the “little g.” When that happens, the statists become the grantor and taker of our rights –which is their ultimate objective, as demonstrated by the Hobby Lobby case and the lawsuit brought forth by Notre Dame University.

So in this Christmas – not generic holiday season – I hope you’ll recognize not just this recurring conflagration but the greater fundamental battle being waged to separate our faith from who we are: one Nation under God, indivisible with Liberty and Justice (and God does not need progressives to redefine His justice) for all. Merry Christmas.


  1. There will come a day when Barbara Walters will say “Help me God” instead of “So help me God”. By then, it will be too late.

  2. Mr. West, I have a great deal of respect for you, and agree with you about 90% of the time. [Hey, that’s pretty good – I don’t agree with anyone 100% of the time, not even my husband and daughter and I like them more than anyone else on the planet!] However, please don’t make the mistake of believing that anyone who is not Christian does not believe in God. Winter Solstice is a very ancient Holy celebration still practiced by many pagan religions today. It is not a secular celebration, as the Secularists would like people to believe, even though there are secular aspects to the day [as there have come to be for Christmas]. Also, the perception of these religions as being polytheistic is only on the surface, and is not the ultimate truth as celebrated by their practitioners. The “Triple Goddess”, the “Lord and Lady”, etc. are simply aspects of God, as is “the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”. The other gods and goddesses are actually avatars, equivalent to the Catholic Saints. Christ was actually born in the spring, but the early Christian church moved the celebration of His birth to this time of the year to make it easier to convert the many non-Christian peoples who celebrated on the Solstice. If you strip any religion of it’s cultural references and prejudices, it all boils down to the same thing: there is God, there is the Messenger, and there is the Message. There is one Source, but many rivers. I wish you a joyful Christmas, Mr. West, and God bless you for the good work that you are doing for our country.

    • Absolutely Judith. Perhaps it would also be good to mention that Christmas is ONE day, December 25th. Not an entire month. There are several other religious holidays that fall during this same time period. Saying Happy Holidays to somebody if I am unsure of their beliefs doesn’t make me less of a Christian. It shows respect. To those I am certain celebrate Christmas I joyfully wish them a Merry Christmas. I grew up in one of the only predominantly Christian neighborhood in a suburb of Detroit. The rest of the city was Jewish. I learned from an early age to respect other’s beliefs. Not because it is “politically correct” to do so but because it is the right thing to do.

      • Actually, Christmas is not just one day, but an entire season. For Catholics season began with Advent – which this year fell on 12/1 – as we prepare ourselves for the coming of Jesus. As far as to the conclusion of Christmas, that has varied over the centuries. So I’ll take a 2004 quote from Catholic apologist Michelle Arnold:

        “Traditionally, Christmas has been celebrated for twelve days from December 25 through January 5 (Twelfth Night). January 6, the Feast of the Epiphany (the celebration of the manifestation of the Christ child to the pagan magi), marked the customary end of the Christmas season. On the current liturgical calendar, the primary celebration of Christmas is an octave (eight days) starting with December 25 and ending January 1 (currently the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God; formerly celebrated as the Feast of the Circumcision of Christ and as the Feast of the Holy Name of Jesus). On the liturgical calendar, the Christmas season officially ends with the Solemnity of the Baptism of the Lord (celebrated this year on January 9, 2005); but, popularly speaking, Epiphany is still often considered a “closer” to Christmas celebrations. To make things even more confusing, Epiphany is a moveable celebration in the United States, transferred to the nearest Sunday. This year it will be celebrated on January 2, 2005. Celebrations of Christmas by other churches and ecclesial communities vary widely.”

        I have not looked at the liturgical calendar for 2013 for the exact dates of the feasts referenced above, but I think you get the idea. Sadly, Christmas has been reduced to “ONE day” by our society.

        Merry Christmas!

    • Judith, I do agree with much of what you say, but when it comes to seeking and finding God, there is but one “river”; Jesus. The only way to God is thru Jesus. Now I will assume that you are correct about moving Christmas to the winter solstice but that is not what Col. West is speaking about. He is talking about liberals attacking christian values. Very simple. What I am confused by is triple goddess and lord and lady references to Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.?? Never seen that in the Bible.

      • I was making an analogy between the triple goddess and the Lord and Lady of some of the pagan religions, with the Triune God of the Christians. All of these are a way that God has of making the infinite accessible to our limited, finite understanding. As to your belief that the only way to God is thru Jesus, I find that to be a bit limiting to God. Jesus was the form in which God sent the Messenger to the Hebrews in that time and place. Why could God not send the same Messenger in different forms to different peoples? Same God, same Messenger, same message. As for the liberals attacking Christian values, I find that despicable. I had meant to make that point but forgot to put it in my comment, and I thank you for calling me on that.

    • I kind of applaud the openess of your heart. I tend to disagree with what you actually said, though. There isn’t a common ground of one message in all religions and there never has been, even among the multitude of Christian religions. There’s an abyss of difference between “theological study” and “religious study”. One can point to similiarities, but it’s the differences that matter.

      • Read the various Holy Writings of the religions, and do some serious pruning of cultural references and prejudices. It takes a long time and a LOT of pruning, but you can eventually boil everything down to the basic message. Even the many Christian religions and sects are offshoots, and offshoots of offshoots, whose origins can usually be pinpointed to specific historical events and cultures. And actually, isn’t it rather sad that the differences matter?

    • “In government”, a little addition not present anywhere except expedient argument.
      Notice they exercise their right to put up the same sort of display while bitching about the Christian display.
      Effing ignorance.

  3. Jane Seymour said “it’s really unfortunate when you have to bring religion into politics,”
    I think it’s really unfortunate that Jane thinks the religious don’t deserve the same representation every other group or individual is entitled to in this country. It’s adorable how she wraps her ignorance in condescension and bigotry. Really.

    • Is this the same Jane Seymour actress who bragged about her rose gardening ‘hobby’ during an at-home interview, and then went on like the posturing dilettante she is to talk about her roosa ragosahs (that she obviously had a crew of real gardeners tending)?

  4. Thank You Allen but the battle belongs to the Lord Amen one day soon no matter what they say and do He Jesus will reveal Himself to them cause no one is Bigger then God and the joke will be on them 🙂 and we know the truth for Gods Word is Truth and His Truth shall Forever Live In Our Hearts:-) keep up the good work I Know That He Has A Big Reward For You Much Love And Merry Christmas aAlways in My Prayers Cynthia ♥♥♥+++

    • Just think of the plus side. We won’t be running into any of them in the after-life. some of us will be standing before our God. Who knows or cares where they go?

      • I care! Why? He came to give life to those who would believe. It is His desire that all would come to Him. HE loved enough to willing sacrifice himself so all could live. Jesus CARED enough to die for me and everyone else. Yes I believe and I care where “they” go, (It”s not a plus. It”s devastating.)

  5. The problem with the atheist argument is that atheism is a religion. So to push out all others from government or public forums is to put them in a position of dominance. Thus by their own argument a violation of the Constitution. Believe as you wish without hindering others. I have a right to worship as I wish, just as all others may worship or not as they wish.

      • By the academically accepted definition of religion, it is a religion. It is defined as the belief that there is an absence of gods. Or more precisely a belief that excludes other beliefs. However you define it only atheists deny that they are I’m fact practicing a faith or lack thereof. Either way it is against our Constitution to force such beliefs upon others.

      • You are categorically, absolutely and completely wrong. It is the lack of belief. No different than not believing in unicorns. Is it religion to not believe in zombies and elves?

        Oxford English Dictionary says:
        disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

      • By saying you do not believe in GOD you are inadvertently admitting the EXISTENCE of GOD. If there is NO GOD, how can you deny the existence of GOD?

      • What? To switch that around…

        By saying you do not believe in SANTA you are inadvertently admitting the EXISTENCE of SANTA. If there is NO SANTA, how can you deny the existence of SANTA?

        How can we deny the existence of something? The same way we think about plenty of other theoretical concepts without proving they exist. You can say you don’t believe in unicorns, or Godzilla, or Russel’s Teapot without proving they exist.

      • And yet in accordance with the academic definition of a religion, the United Kingdom officially recognizes Jedi and Sith as religions. They do not have towns or societies outside of fiction. Christianity prior to the fall of Rome did not have towns or communities and was followed, believed in and recognized through persecution. As I learned through study and social sciences to be defined as a religion only requires two or more people to agree on prescribed systems, values, mores and codes. Most do not acknowledge them until the group is large enough to become compelling to those outside their small group. My faith is moot, as we are guaranteed the freedom to believe as we wish in this country. We however do not have the right to personally or through government force deny another the right to worship or not as they wish unless their rituals put to harm another person. I can say that I began my adulthood as an atheist and came to faith by trying to disprove the Bible.

      • Religion is the organization of like minded individuals, coalescing in the unity of their belief of a particular “faith” (Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikh, Catholicism, protestant). As soon as Atheists began to organize and began to attempt to control others, Atheism ceased to be a thought system, “disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods”. Atheistic demand at being recognized immediately places it into the same category as “religion”. (And PLEASE don’t anyone give me any rants about me believing in angels because of “archangel”. I’m a fan of the X-Men).

      • Yet once again, you prove me correct. Disbelief in gods is still the belief in the lack of gods. Also, you still evade the standard definition of religion. Your core value of not accepting religion and trying to force others to think as you do has blinded you to your contradictions. You are welcome to believe as you wish, but that is just that belief. In accordance to the social sciences the criteria for being categorized a religion does not include a church, temple or mosque to be a religion nor does it require a deity, godhead, spirit etc. Atheism is legally a religion in Europe, it is accepted by the academic community as a belief system and as I stated earlier only an atheist would argue otherwise and you’ve proven that statement to be correct. If you wish to present yourself as the enlightened one do not contradict yourself. Oh, and psychologically speaking you wear your insecurity boldly by hiding behind a screen name.

      • You would get your head handed to you in a scholastic debate. Your premise is a logical fallacy. Do you belie there’s a giant teapot in space that controls all sporting events on earth? If you don’t, by your logic, you belong to the religion of people who don’t believe there are controlling teapots in space. Does that sound right to you?

      • You would get your head handed to you in a scholastic debate. Your premise is a logical fallacy. Do you believe there’s a giant teapot in space that controls all sporting events on earth? If you don’t, by your logic, you belong to the religion of people who don’t believe there are controlling teapots in space. Does that sound right to you?

      • Really? You are the one handing yourself over. You continually evade explaining yourself versus the standard academically accepted definition of religion. You are so insistent that you are so complete without religion that you cannot accept the definition as accepted by real scholars atheists included. Your real agenda here is clear, you don’t want to be bothered with one faith to such extent as you would defy the meaning of what is recognized as religion. It is people like you who aren’t content in your anger but feel the need to inflict your views upon others. Of course as I said before by psychological standards you show your complete insecurity as you still fail to face what the definition of a religion is as well as arguing through anonimity. If your argument were half as sound as you believe you would list scientific/academic standards that support it. Instead you use circular arguments that say nothing at all. Congratulations you have a future as a propagandist for the democrat party.

      • I’d agree with you, but then we would both be wrong. Atheists not a religion. Religion requires faith, which is the suspension of critical thinking, and involves believing something for which there is no evidence.

        You managed to avoid my question. Is not believing in space teapots that control the outcome of sporting events a religion? By your flawed logic, it would seem so.

      • But once again you show the flaws in your logic and reason. Whether or not I believe as another’s belief does not, by definition, make that a belief, their belief does. Where you go wrong is the scholarly accepted definition of religion and atheism. Religion is a belief system whether it involves the faith in a God, several gods, spirits, nature or nothing at all. Simply by virtue that atheists have a belief that their are no gods that is accepted by academia to be in fact a religion. You also argue from the basis that atheism is the lack of religion and by it’s definition is the lack of belief in gods or belief that there are no gods. You use non related topics because if you hold any shred of integrity deep down hidden from view as you do your identity, you realize this and know you are just an angry person who just wants to argue. I am actually enjoying this, for as an enthusiast in the sciences of psychology and sociology, you are giving me much insight into the dysfunction of the rationalization process of those who would force there will on others. Much like the radical religious who ridicule, badger or even harm if you do not worship in accordance with there particular way even within the same faith, you exhibit many traits of one who is insecure in his beliefs and can only legitimize yourself by pushing yourself upon others. I really hope you can find peace with yourself, because you will never find it by being so mad at others.

      • Yet you still fail. Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence.
        Thus by definition whether you believe in the God, many gods, trees, flowers or nothing following a collection of beliefs and views is a religion. Atheism is a religion and as I said, despite the apparent lack of understanding, atheists are practicing a faith. It is only their militant goal of destroying all faith except their own that they cannot define themselves as a faith. Check mate. Of course you will still argue otherwise.

      • “Organized collection of beliefs”

        And therein lies the issue. Atheism is nothing more than the belief that there is no god. While there are groups of organized atheists, there is no actual central church of atheism. This false equivalence is getting old. I’m not even going to bother touching on the abuse of the words “faith” or “militant” here either.

      • Regardless, and I should know better than to argue with the anti-religious because they don’t even understand the Constitution. The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that comprise the Bill of Rights
        Therefore whether you call atheism a religion or not is beyond debate. So long as all groups have equal access, you cannot legally prevent Christian displays. You are welcome to be offended but that is where your rights in this end.
        God bless you.

      • If it is the absence of religion then why are you so adamant about coming against ours which by the way most of us don’t believe in the worldly religion that is, to our Lord and savior,embarrassing as the Father spoke ” My ideal of perfect religion is to take care of the widows and orphans.” Are you against this also?

    • One way I define the difference between liberals and conservatives is like this. If you liberal progressives want to be vegetarians, then be vegetarian. Go for it. But don’t FORCE me to be a vegetarian. If you want to drive an electric car, drive it, enjoy it. But don’t FORCE me to drive one.

      Kudos Corey!. Live and let live!

      • I have been in close quarters combat on several occasions. I am yet to hear anyone make the statement “I don’t believe in God” when they are in danger of death…..never met an atheist in a fox hole.

    • Salary bonuses are given in regard to job performance, not in Jesus’s name. They happen at Xmas because it’s the end of the year. Did I have to explain that to you?

      • I have received MANY CHRISTMAS BONUSES, do I have to explain that to YOU? They were called “CHRISTMAS BONUS,” and they came in a CHRISTMAS CARD SAYING “MERRY CHRISTMAS!” When EVERYONE gets the same from the boss then it would be safe to say the boss intended them to be “CHRISTMAS BONUSES!” Performance bonuses are usually given on your anniversary of your hire date and NOT everybody gets the same amount at the same time. DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN EVERYTHING TO YOU?

      • That is not true. It may be in some instances and that is called profit sharing, but they are called Christmas bonus for a reason.

  6. Merry Christmas Allen West. Keep up the great work you do. This whole political arena has nothing to do with race. It has to do with the fact that you are intelligent; unlike the evil agenda sitting in the White House.

  7. Barbara Walters is a sick senile old woman and will probably be facing God in the next few years, I really would not want to be in her shoes, I’m not perfect but I would never try to turn people away From The Living God

    • From talking to an unbeliever who had died & returned to her body (the Dr. got her heart going again), it seems they go straight to Hell.They don’t meet God. Though maybe those that see a “bright light” for an instant are in the presence of God. These atheists sin against their own conscience that tells them there is a “Creative Intelligence” that they are accountable to. They don’t understand they don’t KNOW God bc they are estranged from him by their sins. Why Jesus came-To show us who God is & to give his guiltless life as atonement for sin. God’s Justice demands sin be suffered for. Trust in Jesus & his Spirit will come to dwell in you, assuring you of forgiveness, giving you power over sin.The supernatural will occur in your life.

    • x-mas is nimrod’s b-day and christians are honoring satan by celebrating it.. why not honor his real day of birth at the feast of tabernacles?

  8. I was reading where this atheist in Europe started studying about DNA and he said there has to be a creator and changed his thinking.

  9. Those who disapprove of Christian beliefs and customs are exerting efforts to silence those they disagree with, using the fundamentals found in the declaration of independence. They , in effect, are using the document which allows them free speech and freedom of religion to shut down those who do not believe as they do. Here are the words to which I refer : We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
    that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
    that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That
    to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
    their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any
    Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of
    the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,
    laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in
    such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and
    Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long
    established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and
    accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to
    suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by
    abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train
    of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a
    design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it
    is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards
    for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of
    these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to
    alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present
    King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations,
    all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny
    over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid

    • Amen and lets get to it! Pray and ask God to set America free and ask corporate forgiveness for America;s pride, man made economic wars (murder) and let us pledge allegiance to God and the Kingdom for which He stands.

  10. We are not celebrating a damn winter. Christmas is what it is. Why do secular people find the need to replace every Christian holiday with a counterpart. Can’t they just let it be? What harm does it cause? They are being hypocritical because they are trying to do away with the Christian holidays they should just come up with their own holidays. Then again, Halloween is also celebrated and it’s not a Christian holiday. Neither is Valentine’s Day. There are other religious “holidays” on a calendar already. Why must they cry about every other holiday?? Get a brain!!!

    • Winter Solstice was a holiday long before Christ was born. Don’t you think it is hypocritical for you to ask for respect and recognition of your holiday and in the same breath deny the same to others?

      • The fact that Winter Solstice has been around longer has nothing to do with its validity. You’re saying that if something is around long enough, it will become fact, so it should become valid and acceptable. That’s kind of a lemming response, don’t you think? And not very intelligent, considering you’re putting a pagan holiday in place of the real reason for Christmas. Winter Solstice has nothing to do with Christmas. And no one’s denying anyone anything. The manger was already there–the atheists provoked the situation and denied the right for it to be there by putting up their own display. So who’s really denying “respect and recognition” here??

      • Stonehedge has been around a long time and there it sits dead and lifeless as the day it was built and more than likely cursed.

      • For me the main point is that we all should be able to freely express our religious beliefs. The way I understand it the Nativity scene was there and then the Winter Solstice display was added. I do think the commentary on the Winter Solstice display was a little inflammatory and should have been worded better. But what I don’t understand is why both displays are not equally welcome? Winter Solstice is an astronomical event that has been celebrated since ancient times. Why is this not valid? Who gets to decide what religious beliefs are valid and which are not? BTW GEM217 I am a conservative Christian that believes in the separation of church and state and rights of all Americans to worship as they wish. Not a lemming just chanting about holiday greetings. And after reading your response again, Winter Solstice is a fact, you only need to look to the sky to observe it. The truth exists and remains as it is regardless of your acceptance.

    • If you were to be successful in even a little threatening way the corporate government lackeys would fry you as that would cut into their god…money!

  11. I believe the Sun is conquered,my friend! And,,…And,,,tell me please,,where did the Sun come from???Bet you folks think there was that big bang,and the Sun just happened to appear…Also;; it is just the right distance from you to keep your dumb butt from frying…Oh ,,I have heard you all b/4 ,,,all things just came from empty space…Where did space come from??? There,, seems to me,, has to be something to make something out of…If I am not right,,You please make me a little flower,,,from scratch…Better yet ,,Let;s put your favorite scientist in a bare room,,and let him make a weed…if they succeed I will believe you BS!!

  12. First of all, I am not an atheist, I am a christian. There is no passage in the Bible when Christ was born, you can’t find it anywhere. Christmas is a man made Holiday and it started with Winter Solstice and the Romans thought is would be great to put the LORD’S birthday during this time. Read up on the History of Christmas and you will find out. Christ was born around July or August if you want to do the math according to the old Testament and the calendars in those days. Besides, there were shepherds in the fields, it gets very cold there in the winter, so the sheep would not be in the pasture. I believe if we are putting things in the Bible or taking away scripture, we are telling GOD that he does not know his business and THAT is a sin. Just my thoughts but if you all want to say Merry Christmas, I am not offended by it.

    • You ARE very right about this–Christmas is, of course, a manmade holiday and the objects associated with it have pagan origins. As a fairly new Seventh-Day Adventist, I’m learning that. But my intent in saying “Merry Christmas” is to remind people to honor the birth of Christ.

      • Nowhere in the BIBLE are we commanded to celebrate Christ’s birthday but we ARE commanded to celebrate his death every LORD”S day (Sunday) with the LORD”S Supper. Again, if we add and take away from GOD”S Word we commit a sin.

      • The Lord’s Day is actually Saturday, the Sabbath. At the Creation, when God created 24-hour days, He rested on the seventh day and declared it to be holy. When Moses gave the Ten Commandments, it was commanded that the Sabbath (seventh day) be kept holy. That has never changed, although most Christians believe it changed to Sunday, when Christ rose from the dead. But nowhere in the Bible did Christ actually change the Commandment to keep the Sabbath holy–it has always been the seventh day, Saturday. The Roman emperor Constantine, for political reasons, changed it to Sunday to separate from the Jews. But man must never change a letter of God’s law, as stated in the Bible (Matthew 5:18), so you are correct in your last sentence.

      • Here are a couple of verses to prove the point. Acts 20:7, “And upon the
        first day of the week the disciples came together to break bread Paul preached
        unto them ready to depart on the morrow, and he continued his speech until
        The point of the verse Paul was coming to preach when the Christians were
        assembled, now when will that be? When would they be together? The answer, on
        the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread. Paul
        came on that day because Paul knew they would be assembled to eat the Lord’s
        Supper. On that day He comes and he continues his speech until midnight.
        Secondly, I Cor. 16:2, Paul knew they would be worshiping on Sunday, he
        says concerning the collection of the saints, as I have given order to the
        churches of Galatia, even so do ye… This is something to be practiced in all
        the churches–” upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by in
        Other reasons why the Lord’ Day is significant for Christians is because
        Sunday is the day on which Jesus was resurrected from the dead. In Mark. 16:9,
        the Bible says when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week he appeared
        first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. Again, the Bible
        says Jesus was resurrected from the dead on the first day of the week.
        Herbert W. Armstrong, was a radio preacher in California for many years, he
        died in 1986, later his son took over his ministry, Garner Ted Armstrong; there
        was a great dispute between father and son, but they were Sabbath keepers, they
        urged that the day of worship had never been changed from the Old Law, they
        taught worship on the Sabbath day. There was only one problem, when they would
        argue this point they would argue that Jesus was resurrected not on Sunday, but
        on Saturday? Why did they do that? They knew how weighty this matter was, how
        heavy was the matter on which day Jesus was resurrected. Also, in Romans. 1:4,
        it is the resurrection that declares Jesus to be the Son of God. There were
        miracles of course, and lots of people died on Roman crosses, but the
        significant issue for Christians is the resurrection.
        Furthermore, Luke 24:1,7, and 21 come into play. On what day was Jesus
        resurrected from the dead (Lk. 24:1)? Upon the first day of the week (this is
        Sunday). V. 7, the third day after his crucifixion he will rise again. What day
        would that be? V. 21, today is the third day since these things were done. Put
        it together, Jesus was going to rise from the dead the third day after he is
        crucified, and verse 21 says, that was today–It was the first day of the

        Too, The Lord’s church was begun on the first day of the week. Acts 2:1,
        says, The day of Pentecost was fully come. What does Pentecost mean? It was a
        Jewish feast and it has its roots back in the OT, it wasn’t called Pentecost in
        the OT and reason is Pentecost is a Greek word, but nobody disputes the fact
        that Pentecost is the Feast of Weeks in the OT. Here is the birthday of the
        church, the beginning of the church, it’s on Pentecost. How do you determine on
        which day Pentecost fell? Lev. 23:15-16, And ye shall count unto you from the
        morrow after the Sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave
        offering, seven Sabbaths shall be complete….That may seem a little confusing,
        but let’s clear the air. Here it is, seven Sabbaths and you pick the day after
        that, that how you always determine Pentecost. Pentecost means 50. Now there are
        seven Sabbaths, that’s 49 days, but that’s not the day of Pentecost, it’s the
        day after that. What’s the day after the seven Sabbaths, Sunday. The day after
        the Sabbath is always Sunday. Sabbath is Saturday. Sum it up, the first day of
        the week is a remarkable day. This is the Lord’s day. This is the day on which
        Jesus was resurrected from the dead. This is the day on which the church was
        established, and this the day the Lord’s people gather together for worship and
        remember His death, burial, and resurrection.
        I talked to my preacher and he can put it a lot better than me:)

      • Please see Daniel 7:25. “Breaking bread” simply means that they were having a meal together. The Christians were assembled because Paul was in town to preach; he didn’t preach because they were assembled on the Sabbath. The women did not anoint Christ’s body because it was the Sabbath–the day after He died, which was Friday. They waited until Sunday morning to do this; by that time, He had risen. The majority of Christians make a lot of assumptions based on certain occurrences in the Bible, but that’s exactly what they are–assumptions. That they happened on Sunday has no significance and is erroneously interpreted that this was now the day of worship. There is no assumption or interpretation here — God clearly stated in His commandments that the seventh day was to be kept holy. Again, the women did not go to anoint Christ’s body the day after He died BECAUSE IT WAS THE SABBATH. God never changed that commandment.

      • i used to be an adventist is the 1st step to coming out of babylon, but don’t stop for your quest for truth.. paul said let us by all means keep the feast (passover) i became frustrated when my sda pastor said passover is no longer necessary. after embracing the sabbath there is another step to take.. search an online bible for ‘name’.. look to see how many time he has declared his name to be honored.. he has given us a challenge to find his name (prov 30:4)

    • You’re right. The Church or the Roman Emperor instituted the celebration of Jesus’ birth. Think it’s a good thing bc Jesus & the Gospel is lifted up & preached.

      • Satan hates it when we celebrate Jesus’ death and resurrection because he was brought to open shame so he has taken the focus off of it and on Christmas and then tried to turn Christmas into a worldly event and quite successfully it it seems!

    • you are almost there Ingrid. we can count the priest rotation of John’s father Nehemiah, placing John’s birth at passover. (why do jews set an empty seat at passover for Elijah?) 6 months after passover is the festival of sukkot (he tabernacled among us) there was no room at the inn because all the Israelites are required to go to Jerusalem for sukkot.

      • no, just a humble member of the sect of natsarim. we are hated by all for keeping the commandments and proclaiming the name Yahusha ha’Moshiack the manifestation of Yahuah in flesh. we keep all feast days and the sabbath.. and reject all traditions of men


  13. i think all Churches and christian venues shoukd get together in Washingtonfor a rally and invite all christens to come out and show suooort against all those who try to take away our relligious freedom Merry Christmas Mr West

  14. It isn’t that they put up their own scene- what they did was to attack and be hurtful to something that was not harming them- in any way. It was antagonistic and aggressive, to be sure. As a Messianic Jew, I know how wonderful a mixed family can be- we can all have our views without hurting each other. Celebrate what you want but do not EVER think it is okay to belittle others who do not celebrate like you. Shame on these so called, “secular humanists” and my they have a Joyous Jesus-Filled HOLY-day.

  15. There wasn’t a single word in this article that doesn’t demonstrate the fact that the author is politically right winged and also a bigot. PS the human species had been celebrating the winter solstice (in one form or another) for a minimum of a hundred thousand years before Jesus Christ had ever been heard of.

    • As usual, when a right-winger expresses his or her opinion, they are called a bigot, racist, hater, homophobe. This is the only “defense” they have because they know they’ve got nothing else. Let these groups celebrate the winter solstice — and let us CHRISTians celebrate CHRISTmas in honor of CHRIST’s birth. If they want to celebrate the sun–which GOD created–go right ahead. Christians will celebrate the SON.

      • Once again I fail to meet a Christian who is willing to debate the facts. As always all you do is share your opinions, whether this is because you lack the ability to discuss the subject and therefore the facts associated with it, or whether you are like most Christians either unwilling to face the facts or not intellectually capable of doing so. It matters neither as I discuss facts not opinions unlike you.

      • I, too, discuss facts. You have just stated your opinions and insults, as proves my point. You’re correct–I’m not intellectually capable of discussing your “facts” because they are not. I’m not here to debate the facts of the article–they’re pretty self-explanatory: Christians put up manger, atheists childishly retaliate by putting up their display (as is their right), AND throw in the usual Christian-bashing rhetoric for good measure (as is their right). Then BABA WAWA and Seymour (an “actress” at best) throw in their little rants for good measure. And THEY feel put upon??! Go enjoy your little solstice display with your friends. Anytime you want to join us, please feel free. Merry Christmas!

      • I will meet you with the Spirit of truth at my side any day and you like many witches that stood before men of God will fall. The battle is not intellectual, but spiritual. A religion based on lies, deceit, manipulation,and fear can not stand before one that is based on truth, free will, trust and love! 600 years and counting..

      • Look hon, your being a mite self inflating. The fact is this, and the facts really don’t go any further. I’m a Christian that believes and trusts Jesus without doubt or reservation. I’ve been washed in blood of Jesus Christ and knew the moment the Holy Spirit entered my body. The affect it had and has on me was and still is such a profound realization that can not and in no manner ever be taken from me. This is the only fact that a Christian like myself can entertain. There’s no debate. So what are you in such a huff about? Maybe its frustrating for you. Trying to get your head around something that you are unable to feel. Kinda makes you think those that feel it and trust it, even while starring death in the eye, are just nuts. LoL. The scriptures teach us that there some that will never get it. And we are to brush off the dust of non-believers and move on.
        I’m just beyond middle age and I’ve seen in my life many

      • Mike Twiddy, the Bible also says that if the world loves us, we are not His. Only those who are hated by the world are most likely His. I am hated, but I know He loves me.

    • Which was also recorded as exactly WHY the world needed for Jesus to appear on the scene. Because humanity’s sin nature leads them to be tempted to worship idols – like the sun, the moon, the stars, Ba’al, Ishtar, a golden calf.
      Why? Why is is more easy to believe worshipping some golden image we can see will have an effect our lives. None of those idols ever wrote us an instruction manual the way God did, through inspiration through humans. I just don’t get why someone can believe in something so stupid but not something that makes so much sense.

  16. Let them celebrate whatever they want to celebrate. Jesus instructed his disciples to “shake the dust off your sandals and move on” from those who refuse to believe. Jesus never forced himself on anyone. If non believers choose to act like insecure children, then so be it. Merry Christmas!

  17. That’s strange! I don’t seem to remember the Bill of Rights giving anyone freedom FROM religion. Maybe I didn’t read it right. I guess I’ll have to check to make sure the unconquered sun worshipers didn’t get their ‘vice messiah’ in the white house put it there by executive order!

    • What don’t you understand about congress not making any law respecting the establishment of any religion? That IS freedom from religion.

      • Congress has NEVER established any religion and there is nothing in the constitution or bill of rights guaranteeing freedom FROM religion; only freedom OF religion for individuals is guaranteed. If you want freedom FROM religion, the first amendment would have to be scrapped, ie. freedom of speech. What don’t you understand about that? I suggest you read the WHOLE constitution and the WHOLE bill of rights for yourself which you obviously haven’t done yet. Everything in these are intertwined having major effects on different sections.

      • LOL, When liberals don’t have a legitimate argument they always seem to resort to name-calling which you are doing now. I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and crap a better argument than yours. Merry Christmas!

  18. The Separation of Church and State…..lets get it right…that statement by Jefferson was to prohibit the state from making a single christian church or denomination for the state. NOT PROTECTING THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE! All those who like to throw around that statement in protest or justification….PLEASE Read Jefferson’s writing very carefully!

    • You’d have to really try hard to paint Jefferson as pro-religion. The man had plenty of writing that points otherwise. Out of all the founding fathers, it seems ridiculous to point to him as a Christian ally, because he was nothing of the sort.

      It annoys me that Christians try to paint our founding as a religious Christian event sometimes. I find it just as inspiring that the United States was formed without a state religion as it was without a monarch. To try to take that accomplishment away is to try to undermine another important aspect of why the founding was so revolutionary.

      • The problem with defining Jefferson is the narrow view of both sides. He was technically a believer in the Bible and Jesus, however he didn’t want to be identified as a Christian. He believed the teachings had been corrupted over the years though biased translations that favored the opinions of those who commissioned the translations. His own writings followed a desire for men of integrity to study on their own apart from the leanings of organized religion and it’s agendas. He would definitely be counter culture in the Christian sense, but he was by no means against God.

      • Where di Jefferson ever say he was a bneliever in the bible? He made his own bible that was completely devoid of all the religious nonsense. One need not believe the bible was real to quote jesus any more than one need believe harry potter is real to quote him.

        Jefferson was so against the church he was accused of being an atheist. This was in a time when being an atheist could get your tongue pierced with a hot poker in England. And Jefferson had to travel there on official business. How do you think he could have led a nation where every hick believes the bible is real when they knew him to be an atheist? He couldn’t – and that’s why, just like today, every politician gives lip service to the bible whether they believe it or not.

      • Jefferson spent much of his life trying to acquire original texts from the scripture in the original languages so he could study them for himself. He had written many statements saying that it was not the Bible that was flawed but man’s bias and misinterpretation. Which is also why I said earlier that atheists will not understand me. They are too wrapped up in their own bias and goals to be open to other ideas. If he was truly so against religion, please explain his desire for self study of religion. Also his words that “all men are created equal and that they are endowed by their creator…” These are not words of a person who doesn’t believe in God. Many of his beliefs are in opposition to mine, but I at least have the academic integrity to not try to call him something he was not. I can not call him a “Christian” in the traditional sense and Jefferson did not want this identity for himself. However, that does not make him an atheist. In fact a professor once said Jefferson referred to himself as a deist, a person who believes in God but not religion. I cannot find hard evidence of this but this is a much better definition than Christian or atheist as he clearly was not either.

      • Where does it say “creator” means god?

        The one time God is mentioned in these official papers, it’s “nature’s god.” Not the god of jesus, not the god of allah, the god of nature.

        In Jefferson’s day, atheism was a crime. Maybe not technically in the US, but the tyranny of the majority would have certainly made it so. If Jefferson were known to be atheist, he never would have been President.

      • So you’re saying you know more than scholars as to what was in his mind. This is something that had been exhaustingly studied by many. They came to a consensus based on the writings of Jefferson and other like minded people that they believed in God but not in organized churches, miracles or prophecies. The rise in the claim that he was an atheist only came along as atheist sought legitimacy in their attempt to use the court system to ban other belief systems. You are welcome to be an atheist I’m not trying to stop you. But I am asking people like you to stop forcing your ways on others.

      • In accordance with academic integrity, I did a little digging. Although not definitive as we cannot interview those in question. There were 55 delegates at the Constitutional Convention. 49 of those would be defined by modern standards as Christian. They did represent a mix most being Episcopalian but there were Methodists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists and Dutch Reformists. The remainders Jefferson, Paine and Franklin most notably are defined as deists. Citing countless references to the belief of one God with skepticism towards miracles and prophetic vision. None listed are defined as non-theistic or atheistic. Now to define those terms as not to confuse, non-theistic is the rejection of belief in gods or religion but can include atheism or agnostics. Atheism is the rejection in the belief of deities.
        However by unanimous consensus the academic community and many European nations identify, label and recognize atheism as a legitimate religion.
        As I have said, everyone in this nation by nature of the Constitution are bestowed the right to worship or not however they please so long as the manner of worship does not cause physical harm or loss to another. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion as scholars, even those who are atheist, agree even the rejection of a deity still constitutes a faith of some sort or lack thereof depending upon your point of view.
        At the same time, despite my personal faith, I have never supported verbal open prayer in public forum by which others are compelled to join. While I fight for the right for myself and others to be permitted silent prayer in public for all faiths, I understand that right stops when we compel or force others to join in. If you are one of the minority that takes offense to silent prayer within your sight where you are not asked to partake, then I hope whatever anger you hold on to is resolved for your benefit.
        The main difference today from our founders, is they found strength in difference. Today too many push their ideology upon others, whether the atheist who directly jabs at religion or the believer who casts anger words to those who don’t follow their doctrine or at the most extreme those who use explosive vests in markets to harm those who believe differently all are wrong. I will never tell you what to do in your spiritual walk whether you take one or not, but do not deny me mine.

      • Well said but remember, it is a two-way street. God bless you and have a Merry Christmas and a stellar Happy New Year. I just hope the new year is better than the last one for our floundering republic.

      • Again, Try “The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of The United States” by Benjamin F. Morris. But I caution you, it’s a big book with big words, and when you’re done with page 1,060, you will know what an arrogant fool you have been. Now go … shooo!

    • The Church does not need protection from the state ..ask Egypt who needs protection from God’s wrath! How many plagues do you need to see happen here before you turn from your wicked and arrogant ways.

      • Have you ever even picked up a book besides the bible? Do you know a single thing Jefferson mentioned in his countless letters? How about Adams, a devout christian? Washington? ALL OF THEM spoke of the need to protect government from the intrusions of the church.

      • MAny professing Christians don’t acknowledge the power of God and foolishly in typical man-flesh fashion try to do it themselves. Man playing God! Man protecting God Absurd! And i would dare to say that in my lifetime I have read many more books than you,but as many were man written they are prone to humanistic slants and misinterpretations by said author. He has even instituted his opinions into God’s Word.

      • I, for one, am proud of our founding fathers but I could care less about what they said about religion. I trust in God and what he says because only He can save this wicked world which includes me. NO man is without sin; especially me.

  19. Mr. West it is real simple, all we have to do is prove the existence of God, which is historically proven by the world wide record of Noah’s flood. There were 3 sons of Noah who would have passed down their story through their children and we would have wound up today with 3 stories of the flood that preceded the Bible account. That is what we find. There would also be numerous similar stories that would be present in almost every country in the world. that is also what we find, there are over 500 different stories, proving that the flood happened. Now if the story of the tower of Babel is true, none of the “heroes” in these stories would be the same. The only one who comes close in the Hawaiian story. Since the flood story is basically the same, but all the names vary. This is proof that the tower of Babel is true. Putting these two proofs together, with the fact that the bible story was written thousands of years after, proves that god was around to tell the story to Moses. God exists, the flood happened, the tower of Babel happened. Teach this as an historically proven fact to our children and in 20 years the church state problem will disappear.

    • Except it won’t. Because children grow up and they stop believing in santa claus… and many of them stop believing in your fairy stories as well.

      Freedom of religion, people. If you’re going to give it lip service, mean it. We all have rights.

  20. Barbara, why are you so concerned about the use of the Bible? It hasn’t stopped them from lying, deceiving, or serving self interests, not to mention pride and as for the final phrase :So help me God” it will become a reality in their lives, but sadly it may come at the end of them. “God will not be mocked.”

  21. Our forefather’s were Christians. It was the Bible that was respected and followed. I realize that those who are intolerant of Christianity cannot accept this, but it is the truth. Why did George Washington go to a church and pray for sanctification of America after being sworn in as our first President? Sanctification means; to set apart. He prayed for America to be ‘set apart’ from the rest of the world–set apart to FREELY worship God and the teachings of the Holy Bible and that God would bless America and her people. Why did President Abraham Lincoln proclaim a National Day of Prayer and Fasting? Because he was turning to God and asking the people of America to do likewise, it is what Christians do. Even non-believers, cry out to God in their darkest hour– ask non-believing WWII veterans who were trapped in foxholes, fighting to protect America’s FREEDOM and facing death.

    • If George Washington was such a christian and really wanted this to be “a christian nation” why is Jesus not mentioned in a single one of his letters?

      How he spoke privately has nothing to do with how he represented this nation. What does that say about his never mentioning Jesus?

      • Try “The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of The United States” by Benjamin F. Morris. But I caution you, it’s a big book with big words, and when you’re done with page 1,060, you will know what an arrogant fool you have been. Now go … shooo!

      • OH, so in order to read what Washington wrote in one of his own letters regarding the government, I have to read someone else’s book? So this person has a letter written by Washington that’s not in the library of congress? Amazing.

      • Maybe he did not want to mention Jesus in his letters. And who says he never mentioned Jesus? There is so much we do not know. But happy New Year to you and yours.

  22. The birth of Jesus is what Christmas is about and myself and millions of believers still honor this day. If you don’t believe in celebrating the true meaning of Christmas, may I suggest that no one is requiring you to participate. Instead of criticizing Christian belief and trying to take away our freedoms, why don’t you find something else to do during the season and leave us alone. Last I checked, this country was built on freedom of religion.

      • No one tells Jewish people to put away the Menorah – or tells Chinatown to take down New Year decorations and that they can’t have New Year Parades DO THEY? No they don’t. But now even Christian CHURCHES are being told their crosses outside are oppressive and offensive….

      • And atheists are (and have always) been told their statements about religion are offensive. It’s not at all uncommon, in fact, to have someone tell you they are offended SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU TELL THEM you’re an atheist.

        What CHURCH has been TOLD to take down a cross?

      • You’re wrong there, Brad. I’m not offended by atheism OR atheists. I feel that they have a right to their opinions but also feel that my opinions are my right. You’re stereotyping Christians and probably other religions; most of who believe that all people are good. God bless you!

      • That’s called freedom of speech. You know, that thing you want but would deny others. Freedom OF religion is guaranteed by the US Constitution; freedom FROM is not and is never mentioned anywhere in the constitution. A public place does not violate the constitution in any way. I know you will respond with something about the separation of church and state but that also isn’t in the constitution that merely states that the government shall not make any religion the state religion.

      • I beg to differ. The liberal courts always rule against the constitutional religious guarantees but their decisions are always reversed at a later date by higher courts. Case in point: The Christian symbols displayed in The US Supreme Court and many other government buildings. If you have ever been to Washington, DC or watched or read conservative media you would know that. Watching and listening to the biased liberal media (ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, New York Times, etc., etc.) does a disservice to the American public by not mentioning the results of conservative wins in the courts. Only recently has ABC started reporting some things but, in my opinion, only because they are losing listeners and sponsors ($$$$) at an alarming rate as are the others.

      • No – there are numerous places where groups have/are trying to have crosses removed from NON PUBLIC places by using building codes and saying the crosses are too large. Even on churches – which are not public land.

      • Well that shouldn’t be fine with you. While I also might find some things embarrasing/stupid, those people still have a right to do it here. I think the Atheist statue is stupid – but they can have it, and they can put it where they want. They want it on their “church”, they can go ahead, it’s theirs!

      • It’s all stupid. They have a right to do anything they want as long as it doesn’t violate zoning laws or bring religion to the public forum. I have a right to think they are delusional. Science supports my view. You are welcome to disagree, and I don’t expect to change your mind. I will remind you that if this was the satanists to the Muslims, you would see it differently, but it is no different.

      • Uh, the crosses DON’T violate zoning laws…they are trying to SAY they do. They are attempting to say they are ‘political signs’ or ‘oppressive signs’, or anything just to get them taken down. They are attempting to use laws in ways they were not intended for. If a cross offends you by simply being there on or outside a church or even a government building – you have more/bigger issues than that cross being there.

        You do have a right to think they are delusional – however you have no right to make them STOP when they are at their own place of worship or wearing their own faith’s symbols.

        And I also personally think science proves that you are wrong. IMO it proves there is an intelligent design to everything. This world, our bodies, everything works like one big designed machine. The more we learn about the human body the more complicated it becomes and it raises more questions than answers. The big bang theory is more along the lines of ‘magic’ than a spaghetti monster in the sky. Where did life come from? A random floating H20 group just decided one day to BAM pop into life one day on Earth…complete with DNA, proteins, energy etc….I think you are absolutely delusional to think life came from nothing. How can life come from nothing? The basic laws of physics say you can’t make something out of nothing.

        And BTW, why would I see this differently if it were satanists doing it to Muslims? What satanist group is telling a Mosque to remove their crescent/sun symbol from the top of the building?! It wouldn’t be right if they were telling them either IMO. I find it ridiculous that you assume I would not support religious freedom just because it’s not MY religion.

        And please, do tell me when Chinatown has been told to remove decorations/lanterns etc. because they violate zoning laws. When has a Temple been told to remove the Star of David, or had an atheist group use bogus attempts with zoning laws to have it removed? How many Jews have been told they can’t wear a Star of David necklace at a school because it will offend students of other religions – like Christians have been told? You can’t – because satanists/atheist always pick the Christians.

      • Crosses may well violate zoning laws. Since they are not habitable, they aren’t part of the church structure, they qualify as a sign. There are rules about how big signs can be. In addition, there is little or no debate about evolution within the scientific community. Those who have advanced degrees who adhere to ID are marginalized within the scientific community, as they have no evidence to support their position, and the preponderance of evidences on the other side. When it comes to the Big Bang, certainly there is more to know, but making up the answers isn’t scientific method. These are ancient myths, invented by ignorant people who knew nothing of the world around them. They didn’t know where the sun goes at night. What have I said that’s inaccurate?

      • Crosses are not a sign. Period. Just like the Muslim crescent/star or the Star of David on a Temple are not a signs. Grow up. That is trying to use laws meant for sales signs/political signs etc.

        I have an ‘advanced’ scientific degree. When I look at the data – I conclude this world and everything on it was DESIGNED. Why? Because there is no evidence suggesting otherwise. Evolutionists say we came from single celled amoebas in the ocean. Please explain this further, because I see no way for the amoeba to spring to life to begin with from salt water and little floating pieces of stuff. Sure the floating things can ‘come together’ but they will not become alive. That, is a fact. Big bang is a theory – not proven and not able to be disproven either, exactly the same as religion. So you are no better than those you talk down to.

        Of course people created myths. Duh – because they didn’t understand things. I didn’t say they didn’t. I said you are incorrect in thinking the world/universe just appeared and life came out of nothing. Something/someone created us – now as to who is right – we don’t know. THAT’S what different religions are about. That is what faith is about. And I know atheists don’t like to hear this but Atheism is just as much a FAITH as a religion is. You believe there is nothing after death, but you can not prove it.

      • Two different things. But they BOTH pick to ‘battle’ the Christians, hence why I used the / to mean both of them. Not that they are the same thing.

      • Fair enough. Atheists are called devil worshippers all the time. Interesting that people would think they believe in Satan, but not in God because there’s no evidence.

      • You win the ignorant bastard award of the day. Go step in front of a truck. Your family will finally have some peace.

      • Ewade, that’s not nice, but I respect your right to say it. But I also kind of have to stand with ya on this one. This Brad guy needs to look at the whole picture, which he isn’t doing.

      • Simple, because it’s becoming more and more obvious that non-believers are attacking Christians for practicing what they believe. Christmas is about, the birth of Christ, I believe it’s pretty evident in the word itself. Any group that doesn’t recognize this fact is free to say “Happy Holidays” all they want, but they should not be free to tell Christians that they need to remove the words Merry Christmas, remove nativity scenes from Air Force Bases, and the list of demands is growing longer each year. It’s not the atheist rights that are being violated, but the Christians. Have you heard any Christians lately demanding that atheist must say ” Merry Christmas?” I sure haven’t, but I’ve heard plenty of atheist demanding that we not say those same words.

      • You must not have facebook, because there are images shared ALL OVER facebook “demanding” “it’s MERRY CHRISTMAS.” Just as you are, ironically, doing right here even as you say no christians are doing EXACTLY what you just did.

        Atheists are demanding equal time, that’s all. And if you think it’s bad now, what happens when the muslim population grows and starts demanding their equal time? I’m sure you people will be freaked right out about that one.

        There’s a reason the government is supposed to be agnostic about this stuff, and this discussion is a perfect example of that. Either you have NO ESTABLISHMENT of religion on public grounds, or you allow equal time to ALL RELIGIONS. You don’t get to have it just your way no matter how many years you managed to get away with it. This isn’t 1955.

      • Brad, the reason there are so many FB displays of Merry Christmas is because we who know our God are no longer remaining silent while the world tries to force us to be so. We are rebelling against unfair treatment, just as you would, were you the target.
        I see news stations where Merry Christmas is now blatantly displayed, and Christian carols are being sung. In years past, they would not have done so.
        We are no longer going to remain silent. Had we not been so complacent in years, decades past, our country would not be in the mess it is in right now.
        We are doing what we should have been doing all along. Choosing this day whom we will serve. You will some day thank us for it.

      • You people are freaking crazy. There’s never been a year where people don’t sing christmas carols, I know this to be true because my cousin, who ISN’T EVEN A CHRISTIAN goes caroling every freaking year. YOU PEOPLE ARE NEVER SILENT. You bitch every time someone dare speak up against christianity. You bitch every time someone demands THEIR voice be heard. You bitch when someone dare utter “happy solstice” or “Happy yule” or even just “happy holidays.” NOT EVERYONE IS CHRISTIAN.

        GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD: People have the right to speak their mind. SPEAKING YOUR MIND IS NOT OPPRESSION. You don’t have the right to not be offended. You don’t have the right to be the only ones who celebrate this time of year because THIS SEASON IS NOT JUST ABOUT CHRISTIANS. If you want freedom to practice your religion, STOP BITCHING WHEN OTHERS DO. Freedom of expression applies to everyone, not just christians. YOU’RE NOT SPECIAL. You don’t get special treatment just because there are more of you in the US. If you expect to get to practice YOUR religion in the public square where ALL OF US have to pay taxes to maintain, stop bitching when others get the same opportunity. It’s our country too. All of us.

        YOU’RE THE REASON OUR COUNTRY IS IN A MESS. It began in the 80s with the meese commission and the rising of the “moral majority.” FUNDAMENTALISTS have been taking over our government ever since, to the point we now have absolutely insane clowns running the senate and, for a decade, the white house. YOU WERE IN CHARGE AND YOU F__CKED IT UP. Stop blaming the rest of us for daring to disagree with your idiotic ways.

      • Wow, Brad. I must have hit a nerve. I’m sorry you are so upset. I get the feeling that someone in your life who most likely waved around the badge of “Christian” has deeply hurt you – possibly repeatedly, long-term. I’ve been there, and I’ve carried that kind of hurt, so it’s easier for me to recognize it in others.
        Brad, you aren’t seeing what I’ve tried to explain to you in the other posts. So I’m going to get real, here. I do know that when this kind of hurt, which manifests itself as intense rage (I know how it feels), toward a certain kind of people comes out, it’s not something to make light of. I do understand. So take a minute here to let me show you something of the real me..
        I couldn’t care less about the holiday called “Christ”mas. I actually dread the festivities and fakey-fake of it all. I don’t celebrate it as others do, because I know its origin is pagan, I ran across an extensive passage one day In the Old Testament where a pagan ritual to another god was being described. God was discussing an event where the people erected trees inside their homes, and decorated them with baubles and other objects around the house. He clearly warned them not to participate because it was a PAGAN ritual to another god. It was a connection to the dark side of the spirit realm, and it was dangerous. Even then, people lost their way and made up their own gods.
        The description of that ritual and celebration sounded EXACTLY like what we do today during the Christmas season. And God’s warning was very clear – we are not to take part in it. Yet here we are, religious people, falling for some humanly created holiday and tacking on Jesus’ birth to legitimize it. Its commercialism makes me sick. Its Santa worship nauseates me and yet most church folk do it. Worse yet, they propagate it through generation after generation, via their children. I have tried, in the past, to explain to others of my circles why I don’t participate, but I get stoned (figuratively) by those who call themselves Christians. I don’t resent them, however, anymore. I just pray. They don’t realize what they are doing, just like the lost souls of the world don’t realize their condition. I no longer share these things with others of my circles.
        When I realized the error of my ways, I stopped telling my kids about the Santa thing. The Santa lie was a very deceptive thing to me, and for years other church goers resented me for trying to tell them why I wouldn’t do it to my own kids. My kids resented me for not being like other parents. As parents, they now understand, somewhat, why I can’t do it, why I just can’t jump in and participate in all the hoopla.
        To be clear, I know that Jesus was not born at this time of year. That fact is very clearly explained in the first book of the New Testament, for Pete’s sake.
        I don’t do Easter bunnies and Easter eggs, either, (another pagan ritual) but I do celebrate His resurrection in the way God directs us to do in His “operations manual” called the Bible.
        I don’t believe in carrying around a cross or singing about it, either. Many things that we religious people do deeply sadden me. I can’t sing “The Old Rugged Cross” because one day a light bulb came on for me and the words sounded like idol worship. It was as if I had been smacked up side the head, and I immediately stopped singing those words. The song is full of worship for a piece of timber, but not for the One who willingly allowed others to torture Him, then murder Him – for my sake, and for the sake of all who would ever come after Him. So I quit singing that song many years ago, as well as a host of others which express worship for something other than my savior, my God.
        I’m an oddball in religious circles, Brad. When I try to explain to church folk my beliefs I am labeled weird, not a Christian. And yet the things I say to them come directly from God’s Word. I word them in my own way, then tell them where I found it in scripture, but they still reject me. Go figure.
        See, I know the problem is that they have never read it for themselves. Their hearts have never truly connected with the TRUE God. Instead, they depend on other fallible humans to enlighten them (into error), then they follow those humans and not the only true God. Those kinds of people are sometimes the ones who call you names, try to convince you how wrong you are by bashing you in the head with the few scriptures they know, or say cruel things to you on posts. They are sometimes those who get into government then make a mess of things. (By the way, Obama is NOT Christian, no matter how he lies about it.)
        Jesus never once inflicted that kind of cruelty on anyone. He just lived what he said, and others followed Him. I saw this in the Bible, when I was in intense study years ago.
        So, I get it. I understand where you’re coming from in regard to those who call themselves Christians and to the Christmas thing. If it were up to me, i’d ditch the whole holiday thing. It’s been hijacked by greed mongers, anyway.
        The one thing that I can’t do is deny the birth of the one who willingly came to save us from the enemy of God.
        Lastly, If we want to honor Jesus’ birth (even though we don’t know the actual date) and the sacrifice He made for us, I can’t see that as a bad thing. After all, we honor soldiers who die in battle. Why not Jesus who died for all of us, regardless of whether we have the date right or not.
        Ultimately Brad, it’s not up to me to convince you of anything. However, it is a Godly directive to all who follow Him to testify of His Son, Jesus, who saved many of us. We are compelled to reveal the love God has for us and how it affects our lives. That is what I do here today. I simply share my heart with you. You can do with it what you wish.
        This is where I leave you. I will uphold you in my prayers, Brad. And I won’t, out of respect for you, respond further to your posts.

      • While I respect your beliefs as described, I must say I find your tone a bit condescending. What makes you so sure I’ve been hurt by someONE? I’ve been an atheist my entire life, but it wasn’t until a year or two ago I gained the courage to stop pretending. I’ve read the bible, I dabbled in fundamentalism myself, that’s why I decided it was all bull. I then decided that I was going to CHOOSE to believe, so I went to church again. Here’s what I discovered: you cannot choose to believe something you don’t believe. You might as well decide to fall in love with someone. Whatever happens, it’s not going to be true.

        Why don’t you believe in Thor? .It’s a way better story than the bible. Even the King Arthur myths are way better – and I have to admit, when I was a kid I had a really hard time at first telling what was myth in those stories. Was Merlin real? What sort of things did he know to mystify people so? If Merlin was real, maybe there were really dragons? And yet, at 8 years old I knew the story of Noah was nonsense.

        You’re welcome to share whatever you like. Just stop trying to legislate me into following your backward beliefs. THAT is what makes me angry and, yes, offended. But most of all, angry. So many of you scream about muslims in this country practicing their beliefs and yet you christians do THE SAME THING as them! You legislate from the pulpit, you organize to take over government so you can make this “a christian nation again” when it never was in the first place, you do all you can to make sure YOUR BELIEFS BECOME LAW. That is EXACTLY what you people accuse ALL muslims of doing!

        Keep lobbing rocks at that wall of separation – you’ll be damn sorry when Michigan or New York become our first muslim ruled state. You break down the wall, oh yeah it’s fine as long as YOU’RE in charge. Let’s see how you like it when the fundamentalists in charge aren’t christian..

        What did Jesus say about someone being blinded by their own beliefs?

      • Okay, Brad. I know I said I would not post again, but I guess I’ll have to. Here’s the deal. I used to be fascinated, as a kid, by all kinds of things like Thor and wizards and all the things that are akin to the Harry Potter mindset. Science fiction has always been one of my favorite genres. I spent several years in my twenties reading stories about ghosts, demons, white witchcraft, outer space travels, other religions, mystical kinds of things, and all kinds of forbidden fruits, so to speak. I was a Pentecostal church kid and we weren’t allowed to read that kind of stuff, but I did anyway. (I’m a reader by nature, and I could read three or four books in one day.)
        But those things were not real to me. I knew they were fantasy. As to the things of God, as to the salvation through Jesus, God clearly explains in His Word why many cannot believe and why many do. But there is no point in explaining it to you, here.
        So . . . I was wrong, and you weren’t hurt by someone or a group of someones who called themselves Christians – as I have been more than once in my life. I’m sorry my comment offended you. It was not my intent. I just have a heart that cares about others – you, Brad, but I don’t even know why I care about you, out of all the others who post. My empathy meter sometimes goes over the edge, erroneously.Please excuse my lapse in judgement.
        As to my decision to follow God, as opposed to your final choice not to believe any of it, as you explained:
        The Bible says that the things of God are not discerned with the intellect. They are spiritually discerned. We can’t make it happen. God does that, but only for those who are wiling, who choose to see. Not all will accept Him. Jesus and His amazing sacrifice is a HUGE stumbling block to the world, at large. As you know, you are not alone in your rejection of those beliefs.
        I don’t consider myself a fundamentalist, demanding this or that of other people. I don’t blindly follow any church or pastor as the ultimate answer to the things of God. I do, however, go to a church nearby, but for fellowship with others who love the Lord as I do. They are very loving people.
        I despise the TV preacher mentality and I won’t send any of them even one penny because I don’t trust them (Charles Stanley is the exception). As for me, and my household, I will serve God – not man. I choose that. You choose atheism. I respectfully leave you to it.
        One last thing on choice: I think that if we choose not to believe, then we are spiritually granted our desire to be cut off from God. We then no longer have the ability to discern God’s presence because WE choose not to.
        Sadly, you closed that door, and accepted atheism at a very young age. I’m sure the adults around you had a lot to do with your decision. To perceive Noah’s story as nonsense isn’t usually the kind of discernment one sees in an eight year old. (If you came to that conclusion at such a young age, without any influence, that opens up a Pandora’s box that I won’t even get into.) Your choice most likely resulted from parental or peer group influence. (I raised 3 kids, and I have 7 grandkiddos. I know whereof I speak.)
        Brad, you seem content with yourself and with your superior intellect so that is what you will have. I’ll no longer waste your time here, with my backward, uneducated, unenlightened drivel. (Sarcasm? Who, me?)

      • 1) Yes, I do have FB. However, my posts
        show no signs of demands being made. The words “Christ is the Reason for the
        Season” is a Christian belief, not a demand. “I Still Say Merry Christmas” is
        not a demand but a display of our rights and a reaction to the fact that we
        believe their being violated and our way of saying, “enough already.”

        2) No, I will not be freaked out when
        Muslims get their equal time because they already have it by celebrating their
        own holidays, which I do not get upset about. You also won’t see me wearing a “Kiss
        me, I’m French, English, etc…” t-shirt on St. Patrick’s Day just to appear
        politically correct and not offend someone.

        3) As for your agnostic argument-there
        are two clauses in the 1st Amendment -1) The
        Establishment Clause prohibits the government from passing legislation to
        establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another. It
        enforces the “separation of church and state.” I personally agree
        with this decision and a look at British History will explain better why our
        Founding Father’s made this decision. 2) The Free Exercise Clause prohibits the
        government, in most instances, from interfering with a person’s practice of
        their religion. The words, “In most instances” are to rule out the possibility
        of cruel rituals like human sacrifice from creeping into our society. After
        review of these clauses it is very clear to me, at least, regardless of rather
        it is 2055 or 1955, as long as this is the law the words “Merry Christmas”
        should not be under attack.

        The final question is, “Why did an Atheist
        organization chose to put a display that reads, “At this season of the Winter
        Solstice, we celebrate the birth of the Unconquered Sun — the TRUE reason for
        the season. As Americans, let us also honor the birth of our Bill of Rights,
        which reminds us there can be no freedom OF religion, without having freedom
        FROM religion in government?” in the same area as the Nativity scene? I know
        the answer and so do most of the readers on this site, it’s a deliberate move,
        as Allen West stated, to demean and dismiss our beliefs, and yes I still believe
        our freedoms are under attack. Your free to celebrate your Winter Solstice
        Holiday all you want, but just I would not wear a “Kiss Me, I’m English T-shirt”
        on St. Patrick’s Day, it would be nice if Christians were granted the same

      • 1) Yes, I do have FB. However, my posts
        show no signs of demands being made. The words “Christ is the Reason for the
        Season” is a Christian belief, not a demand. “I Still Say Merry Christmas” is
        not a demand but a display of our rights and a reaction to the fact that we
        believe their being violated and our way of saying, “enough already.”

        2) No, I will not be freaked out when
        Muslims get their equal time because they already have it by celebrating their
        own holidays, which I do not get upset about. You also won’t see me wearing a “Kiss
        me, I’m French, English, etc…” t-shirt on St. Patrick’s Day just to appear
        politically correct and not offend someone.

        3) As for your agnostic argument-there
        are two clauses in the 1st Amendment -1) The
        Establishment Clause prohibits the government from passing legislation to
        establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another. It
        enforces the “separation of church and state.” I personally agree
        with this decision and a look at British History will explain better why our
        Founding Father’s made this decision. 2) The Free Exercise Clause prohibits the
        government, in most instances, from interfering with a person’s practice of
        their religion. The words, “In most instances” are to rule out the possibility
        of cruel rituals like human sacrifice from creeping into our society. After
        review of these clauses it is very clear to me, at least, regardless of rather
        it is 2055 or 1955, as long as this is the law the words “Merry Christmas”
        should not be under attack.

        The final question is, “Why did an Atheist
        organization chose to put a display that reads, “At this season of the Winter
        Solstice, we celebrate the birth of the Unconquered Sun — the TRUE reason for
        the season. As Americans, let us also honor the birth of our Bill of Rights,
        which reminds us there can be no freedom OF religion, without having freedom
        FROM religion in government?” in the same area as the Nativity scene? I know
        the answer and so do most of the readers on this site, it’s a deliberate move,
        as Allen West stated, to demean and dismiss our beliefs, and yes I still believe
        our freedoms are under attack. Your free to celebrate your Winter Solstice
        Holiday all you want, but just as I would not wear a “Kiss Me, I’m English
        T-shirt” on St. Patrick’s Day, it would be nice if Christians were granted the
        same respect.

    • But, I don’t think you understand that there are other holidays around the same time as Christmas. Can’t you share a month with others? Or does it have to be all about you?

      • No it doesn’t have to be all about me! I could care less if you want to celebrate it as “Happy Holidays,” but as I pointed out it is our freedoms that are being trampled on. Were the ones who are being asked to remove our nativity scenes and not utter the words, “Merry Christmas.” You stated that there are holidays around the same time as Christmas, so let those people honor their holidays, were not telling people they can’t say “Happy Hanukah,” or whatever else your referring to. With your reasoning I guess one could say there is more than one saint, so why should we just limit it to St Patrick the day we all chose to wear green. I understand that our freedoms are being taken away!

  23. Geez Colonel, you’ve attracted one total nutcase atheist who is trolling just about every post in order to “prove” you wrong. I guess it’s because he has nothing better to do, and what better way to prove ingnorance than to post it all over the internet. Thank you LoudGuitr for being bold enough to prove that liberals still don’t really think.

  24. Wait a sec, this is real? I thought this was really bad satire. Is there seriously anybody who doesn’t know that the Catholic Church ursurped the various winter solitice celebrations, just as Easter is a spring equinox celebration? Where else do you think the fricking tree comes from?

    • you are far from being the only. Just as Halloween is not what it began as,. nor is Christmas – I fail to understand why people use this arguement as if it is valid today.

    • Some people are so engrossed in their religion they have no time for history lessons. Plus, they’re only allowed to read one book anyway, so…

      • Greg, we are allowed to read any book we want to read. I’ve read lots of them, including some on witchcraft, solstice, all kinds of other religions. Sometimes I’ve read three or four books a day. But the only one that has helped me recover from the mess I made of my life, or that made sense to me was the Bible. I”m still praying for you, by the way.

  25. @ALAN WEST, THOSE ARE NOT SECULAR HUMANIST, THEY ARE NEW AGE NEO PAGANS, SUCH AS MTSU “STUDENT PAGAN ORG.” WHICH ARE WICCANS, OR GODDESS WORSHIPERS. They recognize Stone Henge and the solstice, as they use the phases of the moon in their Wiccan spell casting, their moon phases are “waxing” and “waning,” It is Sun god and Moon goddess worship, and has been popular with liberals since 1990’s. When I was in college it was the trendy thing to be. Not surprised that the Bible says in the last days Rome, the last empire will be again, and goddess worship of Rome is what Wicca is. However, in Revelations, the term on the harlot’s forhead that rides in on the beast is “Mystery Babylon the great.”as goddess worship started in Babylon, with the first goddess worship of Inanna. Later became Istar, the goddess of Egypt which is represented in our Statue Of Liberty. Islam started in Babylon as well, remember the man in the book of Daniel has 2 legs, it is 2 religions started in Babylon, Wicca and Islam, both in our World Council Of Churches, and popular in these last days just as the prophets prophesied they would be! It is the beast system and religion!

    • “The perverse of heart are an abomination to יהוה, But the perfect in the Way are His delight.”
      {Pro_11:20 }

      “The fear of YHUH is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and discipline.”
      {Pro 1:7}

      ” The heart of the understanding one seeks knowledge, But the MOUTH OF FOOLS FEEDS ON FOLLY.”
      {Pro_15:14 }

      I REJECT YOU from being priest for Me.
      Since you have FORGOTTEN the Turah of your Alahym,
      {Hos_4:6 }



      “And do not bring an abomination into your house, lest you be accursed like it. Utterly loathe it and utterly hate it, for it is accursed.”


    • Pagans are not all wiccans. It’s not the same thing. Why don’t you do some basic research rather than post ignorance?

      Wicca is a “religion” invented in the 1960s. Witchcraft is older than the bible, that’s why it’s mentioned in the bible. Pagans are older than the bible. Again, not the same thing. Not the same thing. Get it? They’re not all the same thing.

      • Well…Braaaad. You are right about witchcraft being older than the Bible. According to the Bible, Satan WAS on the earth before God began to inspire man to record His words, so the old snake and his witchcraft had a head start. Which is why God needed to make sure we knew how to defeat him, via our operations manual – the Bible. Duh.

      • Witches are not satanists. Most witches don’t believe in christianity, and satan is from the christians. There were witches before there was a satan.

      • Honestly, dude. These guys only focus on their Jesus and their Satan. They can’t comprehend anything else. It has to be one or the other with these people. They can’t fathom that there’s anything more to this world. They are so Satan-obsessed and Jesus-centric. That’s why I had to leave that religion. It just got so ridiculous.

      • @ Judy, You’re wasting your time trying to deal w/Mr. Scott. No matter what you say will never be considered by him because his mind is closed to anything other than his atheist mindset. He is probably a good man and chances are that he would call on God at the last minute for help if he ever got into a life-ending event. Fortunately, our God is a forgiving God and wouId forgive him for his past discretions if he asked for forgiveness of his past sins and accepted Jesus as his personal savior. The only problem I can see is his lack of faith in someone he can’t actually see. We can only pray for him and hope God will speak to him before he loses his soul to Satan. I hope you and he have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

      • Raptor555, this I know. You are correct. Why do I waste my time? Because he is lost, and time’s a wastin’. There’s always hope. Remember Saul? He truly believed he was doing what was right when he murdered Jews, like Hitler did. But God jerked his chain, showed him his error, he was renamed Paul, and he became one of God’s greatest human voices in the New Testament. If God can do that for Paul, who was Saul, he can do that for Brad Scott. I will pray for him to be haunted (so to speak) by God’s Holy Spirit until he makes his decision: As in “Choose you this day whom you will serve.” And then….so be it.
        I ‘spose I should be a little nicer, huh?

  26. Sooo… let’s be clear here: people celebrate hannukah. They celebrate solstice. They celebrate yule. But if someone dare mention any of those instead of christmas, it’s because they’re part of some imaginary “war on christmas.”

    That’s pretty much it, right?

    And yet you talk about the constitution in the same breath that you deride everyone else’s free speech? The constitution exists EXACTLY to protect us from people like YOU!

    • Have you noticed though, that the Atheist groups always target the Christians? They never have a billboard that says Chanukah is greed etc. They take the Christian phrase “Reason for the Season” and make it about the sun. They fail to remember that Celtic Pagans are still a ‘religion’ – they believe the world was created – not in the same Christian or Jewish way but not in the Big Bang either. They also believe in spirits and evil spirits, just like Christians and Native Americans even.

      Basically they argue against religion – with another religion. It’s dumb.

      And I’m sorry – in what place have people been told to take down the Atheist, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Celtic/Pagan, Chinese New Year decorations? Now how many places have people been told to take down Crosses, Nativity scenes and other Christian decorations like COLORS red/green – even during holidays? Now who’s being silenced again?

      • There are many atheists who try to get billboards taken down, heck I even saw a group that was trying to get a cross at a CHURCH taken down by attempting to use building codes by saying it was too large….

    • No Brad, that is not what the Christians are saying at all! THe war on Christmas is that the Humanist or whatever they want tobe called is taking the word Christmas out of the vocabulary and saying that is not the time of season it is. It doesn’t matter that the term solstice, or hannukah or any other seasonal greeting is being used, The concern is that those other greetings are being added, it is that an assult on Christ and Christmas to have it removed.

    • Wrong. Christians have ever had a problem with people celebrating Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, solstice or whatever. But the people who differ with our beliefs have a problem with us celebrating our beliefs. Just us. Just Christians. No one is trying to force Jews to not use the word Hanukkah. It isn’t even a war on Christmas. It’s a war on Christians. It’s a hate campaign that says everything you worship or believe in is fine…unless you believe in Jesus. That’s not cool. My beliefs as a Christian should be protected along with the Atheist’s non-beliefs.

    • Sometimes I think Christians make up persecution so they can somehow feel important. There is no war on Christmas. And some people do actually celebrate Solstice. I’m one of them. Done it for years now. I take no offense to Christmas nor Christianity nor religion in general. I just don’t want it in my government.

      • then you don’t deserve to live in a land where many people died to give us that right….to worship the one true living should look up the history of this nation, when the pilgrims came here to set up a nation to live under God’s rule.if religion problems yoy go somewhere else in the world where you won’t be bothered by Christians.

      • Did you say I don’t deserve to live in this land? This nation was formed because of lack of freedom, religious persecution and to get away from tyrannical rule by a nation who inflicted a single church on all it’s people. The Founding Fathers made certain there would never be one religion in this land. Read the Treaty of Tripoli, weirdo. And many people died to give me the right to believe whatever I want or whatever I don’t want. We have to live here together so you better get used to it. It’s not your country. Anyway, to get back on topic: There will never be a place for religion in U.S. government. It was not part of our heritage despite what religions our Founding Fathers were. (And they weren’t just Christians.)

        And my people WERE the Pilgrims.

      • The pilgrims came here because the people of England considered them zealots and didn’t want to be around them. They were not, however, the founders of this country and had nothing to do with out Constitution. If pilgrims had founded this country we’d live in a very different country, and one without religious freedom.

      • Heard the latest? Church of Satan wants to erect a $20,000 monument at some government building in some state in America. So let’s just let EVIL take over the government, blatantly, now. Kill off the only standard that keeps evil at bay so we don’t all destroy each other, and let the very thing this is pure destruction take over. Those of your ilk will have only yourselves to blame, and you will eat your words when that which keeps evil at bay (Christian prayer for mercy over us all) IS no longer in “your” government!

      • Judy, I understand your frustration concerning the state of our present problems in the world and I have the same frustrations. As long as I believe that Christ is MY personal savior, it comforts me to know that, no matter what happens in the future, I will be fine.

      • I did hear about that. I don’t know anything about that religion, but it’s still a religion and should not be able to infringe on the rights of everyday Americans. What they’re doing (or rather trying to do) is just as wrong as that 10 Commandments monument. I don’t know what “those of my ilk” means. I’m assuming you mean us who follow the Constitution (because that’s all I’m trying to convey here). Those of us who are trying to keep this country sane and free. I don’t think you understand your rights nor the Constitution if you think the Church of Satan is going to take over. And it’s “our” government not “mine”. We share in this. And, you keep praying. You will always have that right.

      • You’re being played like a stacked deck. The COS is another modern day invention. It’s like scientology or wicca or mormonism. Anton Lavey (the founder) was an atheist who wanted to recover the community and ceremonies that church folk enjoy, and he wanted to freak out christians, soi he built a religion and called it the COS. It doesn’t “worship” satan, the satan part is there because satan supposedly tells people we are gods of our own fate and that we should live every day to its fullest. Wow, what heresy.

        I’ve noticed you like astroturf and I’ve also noticed you have a real persecution complex. You know, this country is populated largely by christians, and they are definitely the most vocal even about their goal of taking over the government, so what do you expect? You declare jihad on OUR government, you get the horns.

        And BTW, saying “I’m good without god” (as those atheist billboards say) is clearly NOT just about christians, although you will probably still be too blinded by your own insanity even after reading this. Christians, jews and muslims all worship the same god – and atheists are good without ANY version of that god, or any other god.

      • Your comment that there is no war on Christmas or Christianity is ludicrous! Wake up. Pay attention. Once we Christians are finally robbed of our Constitutional right to worship as WE see fit, whatever rights YOU hold dear are next. I personally worked in a college in my state where a Muslim was

    • A comment I made earlier to another of your ilk:
      The problem, Mr. Scott, is not that we aren’t “tolerant” of others’ beliefs. We tolerate the best we can. It is that people of your ilk are hell-bent to snuff out every word, every of nuance ours. We are being expected to keep every part of what WE believe silent, while every other belief is brought out, displayed and worshiped. We who believe in Jesus’ birth, death and resurrection freely done as a sacrifice to save us (for goodness sake!), to save this very LOST world are expected to keep our mouths shut while everyone who does not believe this is allowed to wail their beliefs at the top of their lungs. I will NOT be silenced. I will speak for Jesus if no one else will! Every push to make me be quite will make my voice louder. Merry CHRISTmas!

      • Good god, woman. What other beliefs could you possibly be talking about that is brought out, displayed, and worshiped that’s keeping your Christianity silent? Everyone here in Arizona celebrates Christmas or Hannukah.

      • Mr.Ward. There are other states outside of yours. Are you not paying attention to what’s going on in any state except your own? Do you get cable? Apparently not.

      • Who can afford cable in this “Recovery”? I pay attention to other states. You never answered my question. What other religious beliefs openly display their holiday traditions that are keeping you from displaying yours in your state? I must have missed this on the news. I like to be informed, so inform me.

      • It seems to me that you may be twisting my words for the fun of it, or maybe you did not understand what I actually said. Perhaps the way I stated it confused you. Perhaps I misspoke.
        To clarify: I did not intend to imply that other religions are tromping over top of Christianity. I tried to say that all others are allowed to be heard, to do, to say whatever they want to. We Christians are, on the other hand, being told EVERY DAY to keep our comments to ourselves (I can give personal examples) because, good grief, we might offend somebody. I guess one could describe this imbalance as religious favoritism. (Or maybe it’s fear of being beheaded?)
        I, for one, can no longer let fear rule me. I speak from a heart that somehow KNOWS the only hope our world has is the salvation that Jesus freely offers to anyone and everyone who will accept it. He freely sacrificed himself to save YOU and ME and ANYONE who will realize the need and accept His gift. Yet far too many reject that incredible thing He did to save them from certain horrible destruction – that includes you, Mr. Ward. I just don’t get it. Why is Jesus’ sacrifice so horrible to accept? Have you ever stopped – just for a minute – to consider why Jesus’ name, His life, His sacrifice causes you to become so irritated at all of it? If you haven’t asked yourself that question, maybe it’s time you do.
        Jesus’ sacrifice is a unique thing, an act of extreme beauty that only HE would ever willingly do for anyone. No other prophet, no other human, no other entity would EVER do that for an entire world of strangers. But Jesus did.
        That I, imperfect as I am, could actually be in the company of the one, true God for all eternity, just because I accept the offer of that sacrifice is beyond my understanding. How much more amazing can anything get than that?
        I read in the Bible that not everyone will know Him. Only certain ones are actually capable of knowing and accepting this. God’s Holy Spirit compels, but only certain ones are open to His voice. Once we see ourselves for what we truly are, and we know that there is no hope without outside help, Jesus, then we suddenly see the truth.
        I don’t know why I was able to see it. I don’t know why you can’t. I don’t deserve to be loved by God any more than anyone else. I was aware of God from a very early age. I never had to be convinced. I just . . . knew . . . that when I heard about God, about Jesus’ death and sacrifice for me, I KNEW in my heart – somehow – that it was all true. And I welcomed it into myself. I always have. It doesn’t come from books, or from other people forcing me to believe. It comes from something like an inner knowing, like knowing how to breath or take a drink of water.
        I don’t know why I’m explaining this to you, one who will not accept it. Strangely, I was always the wall flower, always trying to please everybody, not wanting to rock the boat, so to speak. However, this year, for some reason, I have found a voice that just won’t shut up, even when I kick myself.
        Mr. Ward. If you truly enjoy finding folks to argue with, pick apart or try to make idiots of them, PLEASE go find someone else. If aiming poison darts at people just for the fun of it is your game, please release me from it. I’m not interested. I’m truly not into arguing. It makes me tired.
        So let’s just call this quits, huh? I will, instead, pray for you, Mr. Ward. I pray that God will begin to make you VERY aware of His presence in every move you make, so much so that you will become annoyed and finally yell at Him to either make Himself known to you or leave you alone.
        After all, I reached that point in my life and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

      • Others have the right to ask you to keep your beliefs to yourself, because we don’t all care to hear your nonsensical blather. It’s not that it offends, it’s that it annoys. It’s like a dog barking for hours on end, or a bad musician practicing next door. Doesn’t mean you are being oppressed, or evne that you have to shut up. It’s simple courtesy. Asking you to shut up doesn’t infringe on your right to believe whatever you like.

      • I’ve lived in a good many states, and spent time in almost all of them. Not once have I encountered one without many churches and people talking about “god this” and “jesus that.” Not one. Know why? Because there isn’t one.

    • I haven’t noticed even one person on this board say that your speech is offensive but I did notice that they’ve merely disagreed with you. If that is taking your freedom of speech away from you in your mind, I’m afraid that your reasoning is really flawed and maybe you need some psychological help. Case in point; Liberals are calling conservatives racist for merely disagreeing with obama’s liberal agenda. It has nothing whatsoever with race.

    • Does it really matter? Why can’t one organization or individual choose to celebrate Christmas or whatever however they want? If they want to put out a nativity to celebrate their own beliefs, how is it anyone else’s business? Someone’s disbelief doesn’t offend me, so how does my belief offend them? It makes no sense. It was chosen to be the day we as Christians celebrate Jesus’ birth. If someone wants to celebrate it as Winter Solstice, fine, but don’t tak away my rights to celebrate Jesus’ birth. You see what I’m saying?

      • Since Jesus is the reason for the season, and there is no other holiday as the Jewish one is already over, they have a problem. Winter solstice is one day, December 21 this year. they can celebrate the the Unconquered Sun if they wish, but they just have the spelling wrong.

      • Many chritians take it as an attack on their beliefs simply by telling them you are atheist and don’t believe in their god or any other.

        No one is taking away your right to celenrate any holiday you want. Some of us object, however, to doing so on land our taxes pay for. And MOST of us object to faerie stories being taught to children as reality at our expense. How would you feel about your tax dollars going to teach kids witchcraft? Or that Islam is the one true religion?

      • Sorry, you don’t get to make baseless assertions and then say “don’t ask.” Let’s see where our tax dollars are going to teach children witchcraft? But here’s a clue for you: reading fiction doesn’t count. Teaching kids about jesus is fine; telling them it’s real is not. Telling them the earth is 6000 years old, is not. Telling them some people are stupid enough to BELIEVE that is truth, that’s fine. We learned about King Arthur and Zeus and Thor and all that in school – but no one tried to convince us it was real. That’s the difference.

    • Thanks for the link, John. You may have just changed my mind about the ‘pagan’ origins of Christmas. I have been researching the subject since 1971 yet I’ve never run across this information anywhere. This is a big relief. I’m not dogmatic, I just want all glory to be given to Christ who deserves it.

  27. They twist and manipulate our constitution to no end. We are a Christian nation and our government shouldn’t be so weak to allow them to twist and manipulate it like this but it has already been going on for so long that those manipulators have infiltrated our government and hold to many offices. Our politicians for some time have subscribed to this politically correct B.S. for so long they bend over and kiss the a## of every country and everyone who comes here from another country with no regard with how stupid we look and no regard to how they weaken us as a nation and in the eyes of the world. That is why 911 happened, if they didn’t make us so weak and so weak in the eyes of other nation they would have never tried it and for sure it would have never worked. Now look it they are taking all fundamental morals as humans with any civilized behavior out of our nation. We must take a firm stand and not just fight but take back our nation from these looney demented/evil lost souls. If we want to have any hope what the future holds for our children our grand children and the future of other living creatures.

  28. as a jew I am deeply offended and angry over the attention these morons get for their disrespect of Christmas, and what it represents. You are not forced to believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God, but you are required to be respectful of the beliefs of the majority of Americans. Why is it so important to respect the camel jockeys and not denigrate their filthy cult of hate, but OK to slam the real religion of love for your fellow man?

    • I honestly appreciate you saying that. Thank YOU so very much. I have absolutely no respect for the Camel Jockey attitude toward any other Religion. Again, Thank YOU. Oh, and Happy New Year.

    • No, we’re not. This is a free country. I don’t have to respect anything but the authority of law. Man’s law, not god’s.

      How can you demand respect and in the same breath disrespect others for their beliefs? Especially when they believe in the same god as you? Being in the majority doesn’t lend you special rights. We all have the same rights as humans whether we bow down to your cantankerous god or not.

  29. is that stupid wench walters still around? she is about as stupid as obozo and should be deported to kenya along with obozo..

  30. What in the hell is Barbara Walters problem other than being a way out there Liberal. I know many people that are Jewish and not one have I met have a problem with Christmas. But she does. She is a disgrace to the Jewish people.

  31. Unknown to most people, the only reason we celebrate Christmas on December 25th is because we celebrate his incarnation (the Annunciation) on March 25th, and calculated the birth being 9 months later. Most would believe that this happened the other way around, but March 25th came first. Here is one source,

    In other words, the whole Winter Solstice tie in came AFTER the fact. Christians didn’t just make up the date to compete. Good information to know. Merry CHRISTmas!

      • The council of Nicaea is the point at which the church became apostate and chose to venerate Constantine I and the Pope above the deity and authority of Jesus Christ. Jesus gave no directive to commemorate His birth; only His death and resurrection. I don’t hate Christmas, but it was a pagan holiday until the RC church turned it into a ‘Christian’ one.

  32. Solstice is the recognition and celebration of the turning point in the cycle of the relationship the Earth has with the Sun… a cycle and relationship which we depend on for life.
    From a Christian viewpoint even, aren’t these God’s creations? Sun, Earth, Life?
    The cycles of nature happen when they happen.
    No one is telling you you have to say Happy Solstice, but for Pete’s sake, why get up in arms about others celebration of things that “your” God made to happen in the same month as Christmas?
    Why act like other people having other values to celebrate, somehow devalues your own? Is your own faith so fragile that you can’t have others around you feel differently?
    Do unto others as you would have done unto you… respect other’s rights to their celebrations, as you would want your respected.

    • The problem is not that we aren’t “tolerant” of others’ beliefs. It is that their beliefs want to snuff out every word, every nuance ours. We are being silenced, one at a time. Not this chic! Every push for me to be quite, will make my voice louder. Merry Christmas!

    • Read your Bible, Carla. “Thou shalt put no other gods before thee.” You don’t have to do that but you do it at your own peril. You can celebrate the solstice like you celebrate halloween but if you worship the earth and the sun, you are going against God’s laws but you have every right to do so. God gave every person free will and will be judged on their own personal decisions.

      • I’m guessing you don’t have a christmas tree, then. Or a wreath. Or the red and white decorations that were inspired by the red and white psychedelic mushrooms that grow underneath pine (“christmas”) trees.

        Guess what? You can be an atheist and still celebrate christmas. You can be an atheist and celebrate ramadan and eid. In fact, I personally would like to see us all celebrate eid al-fitr because it’s a wonderful inspiration for a holiday and it comes in the middle of summer. It’s like christmas in july. Doesn’t mean I believe in god, but I believe in giving and being with others in celebration. Doesn’t matter what we celebrate as long as it’s positive. You don’t have to believe nature was created by the spirit of the moon to celebrate solstice. You people celebrate oester every year and don’t even realize it. What do eggs have to do with the death of jesus? Nothing, it’s a pagan tradition. Just like the name of the holiday. And yet there you are, celebrating a man tortured to death nailed to a cross.

        And what about those who worship god but don’t believe jesus was god? Or believe in the holy spirit? Some monotheistic religions believe more in god as supreme deity than christians do. “There is no god but god” and all that…

  33. A true Solstice celebrator is not an atheist but rather a “Pagan” or Wiccan which is a religion, and therefore some believe in a very real God and creation. Atheist believe in NOTHING but the here and now. Counter attack on religions does nothing to keep Christ in Christmas. I’ve met many Wiccans and not one of them would want Solstice to replace Christmas or vice versa and will celebrate both with equal zest. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Winter Solstice which would account for Happy Holidays around this time of the year. By the way, the photo shopped card misspelled Solstice. One wrong does not make a RIGHT!

    • Wiccan is a stupid religion invented in the 1960s. It has christian influences just like so many others. Paganism envelopes a huge range of beliefs – including, believe it or not, CHRISTIANS. My cousin is a pagan. She’s a witch, not a wiccan. She doesn’t believe in god, and I have no idea who she believes created all this, but she worships everything, alive or not, because to her everything is alive and has “energy.” Not a soul, not as spirit, “energy.”

      THIS IS NOT WICCA. This is witchcraft. It’s NOT the same thing. My mom and aunt practiced witchcraft but they also had christian leanings although I know for certain my mom didn’t believe in hell because I heard her tell a christian lady flat out when she came to our house once prosletizing. My grandma was, according to my aunt, a devout christian even though she seemed to practice these other things. Christians ALSO are not a unified group and many are just as offended by other christians as any pagans or atheists. To muslims, YOU ARE PAGANS. Because you believe in multiple “gods” not just one. You have every right to disagree with this, you have every right to be offended, but guess what? OTHERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE AS THEY CHOOSE.

      Atheists ALSO have a very wide range of beliefs. Some of us don’t believe in any of it, others believe there “may be” something, others still are DEAD SURE everyone else is wrong, they KNOW THERE IS NO GOD. And guess what? MOST ATHEISTS – at least most I know – if you look on facebook, you will see most of them there – DON’T CARE what you say this time of year. Most, in fact, don’t even care about manger scenes or whatever. I DON’T CARE. But a few care. They have a right to be heard too. STOP ACTING AS IF THE WORLD IS AGAINST YOU. If you want people to accept you, stop DEMANDING we accept you.

      Solstice is not about “creation.” You don’t have to believe in god to know the earth rotates about its axis and every year gives us seasons. This is a natural behavior, jsut like gravity and electricity. You don’t have to believe in god to know how electricity works.

      Solstice is a celebration of the shortest day of the year giving way to the return of the sun and warmth. That’s it. You don’t have to believe in a god to be happy winter’s days are soon to pass. But guess what? Many atheists also celebrate this time of year simply because it’s fun. Pertsonally, I love this time of year. I love the red and white but guess what? That’s a pagan thing not a christian thing. Just like the yule tree, wreaths, and Santa Claus. We like to celebrate many beliefs because it feels good. That doesn’t mean we believe them to reflect reality. Religion – all religions – have inspired much great art through the eons. That doesn’t mean we believe any of it’s true any more than we believe in Harry Potter. It’s simply fun to hear a good story or to enjoy looking at great architecture or visual art. The best of it inspires emotional reaction BECAUSE it is not just about one thing or the other. Problem is, so many of you – especially christians and, in many parts of the world, muslims – are determined to take that fun out of it. Something about the god of Abraham makes many of you people absolutely insane.


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